S2E9 - The Device (The Soul Phone)

1
00:00:40,410 --> 00:00:41,818
Chris: Wow, you sound like you're really into this.

2
00:00:41,874 --> 00:00:44,270
Kayla: I'm not. I'm sick and I'm tired.

3
00:00:44,890 --> 00:00:47,994
Chris: All right, well, we're gonna bring you a great episode here today, folks.

4
00:00:48,082 --> 00:00:53,790
Kayla: I didn't know we started. You were the one who was like, what do we do? What do we do? I didn't know we started.

5
00:00:54,450 --> 00:01:00,090
Chris: Well, we had some microphone trouble here, peeps. Actually, it was more computer trouble than microphone trouble.

6
00:01:00,210 --> 00:01:00,826
Kayla: Microphone's fine.

7
00:01:00,858 --> 00:01:02,796
Chris: That's what we're talking about. In case we keep any of this.

8
00:01:02,858 --> 00:01:03,744
Kayla: Your computer.

9
00:01:03,872 --> 00:01:17,544
Chris: But what were saying before my computer crashed is it's crazy that we have a podcast at all. It's not something I ever would have thought of myself doing. And so, I don't know, it's just one of those, like, why do we have a podcast?

10
00:01:17,592 --> 00:01:22,152
Kayla: That's weird, because I had an idea for a tv show, and you took it and repurposed it for a podcast.

11
00:01:22,216 --> 00:01:22,928
Chris: I took it?

12
00:01:23,024 --> 00:01:24,384
Kayla: You took it? You stole it.

13
00:01:24,432 --> 00:01:27,344
Chris: You had another podcast for, like, a year before we started this.

14
00:01:27,392 --> 00:01:29,320
Kayla: Nah, we recorded.

15
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:29,856
Chris: Yeah, I know.

16
00:01:29,888 --> 00:01:33,360
Kayla: The first episode and the other first episode of the other podcast at the same time.

17
00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,620
Chris: I know, but then.

18
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:40,116
Kayla: Then you took a year to get your shit together on my television show idea and turned it into a podcast.

19
00:01:40,308 --> 00:01:41,900
Chris: Yeah, and also, you're welcome.

20
00:01:41,940 --> 00:01:45,760
Kayla: Then I could have sold this to discovery. I could have sold this to TLC.

21
00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:47,244
Chris: You wish.

22
00:01:47,332 --> 00:01:48,012
Kayla: God, I just.

23
00:01:48,036 --> 00:01:50,852
Chris: There's not nearly enough drama in this for us to sell it to TLC.

24
00:01:50,916 --> 00:01:54,588
Kayla: That's not happening. Just give somebody a marriage license, and.

25
00:01:54,604 --> 00:01:57,356
Chris: Then, well, we're married. We could just yell a lot more.

26
00:01:57,428 --> 00:02:00,968
Kayla: It could just be 90 day fiance podcast.

27
00:02:01,084 --> 00:02:02,920
Chris: Oh, shit. My mom listens to this. I can't say that.

28
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,940
Kayla: Yeah, please don't. Please don't call me a bitch.

29
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,100
Chris: Okay, cut that out. Well, you're the one that brought up TLC.

30
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,016
Kayla: They're not running around calling each other bitch all the time.

31
00:02:13,168 --> 00:02:16,736
Chris: Aren't they? No, they're doing. Oh, okay, fine. I'll throw cake in your face.

32
00:02:16,768 --> 00:02:18,144
Kayla: I don't know. That's better.

33
00:02:18,312 --> 00:02:20,576
Chris: By the way, this podcast is actually a cake.

34
00:02:20,728 --> 00:02:21,824
Kayla: Everything is a cake.

35
00:02:21,912 --> 00:02:22,336
Chris: Zing.

36
00:02:22,408 --> 00:02:24,000
Kayla: How do you know this microphone is not a cake?

37
00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:30,850
Chris: I know it's a cake. Look, if I put frosting on and it's a cake, forget Twitter. That was already true.

38
00:02:30,930 --> 00:02:32,594
Kayla: You want to cut it open and see what happens?

39
00:02:32,682 --> 00:02:36,898
Chris: Not particularly. Welcome to the show. That we're not sure why we had.

40
00:02:36,994 --> 00:02:39,378
Kayla: Welcome to the show. That's definitely a cake.

41
00:02:39,514 --> 00:02:40,354
Chris: Welcome to the cake.

42
00:02:40,402 --> 00:02:41,818
Kayla: The show itself is a cake.

43
00:02:41,914 --> 00:02:42,730
Chris: I'm Chris.

44
00:02:42,850 --> 00:02:43,906
Kayla: I'm a cake.

45
00:02:44,058 --> 00:02:47,030
Chris: And this is cake or just cake?

46
00:02:48,250 --> 00:02:49,978
Kayla: That's what the podcast really.

47
00:02:50,034 --> 00:02:52,090
Chris: Cake or just cake? Maybe that'll be our episode title.

48
00:02:52,130 --> 00:02:55,160
Kayla: I wouldn't mind having some cake right now.

49
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:56,904
Chris: I would enjoy cake right now.

50
00:02:56,992 --> 00:03:03,368
Kayla: I see that you've got something pulled up on your screen, so clearly you've got some business to attend to. Before I hop into the second half.

51
00:03:03,424 --> 00:03:08,696
Chris: Of my talk, I was just taking a look at our world of text page culture.

52
00:03:08,728 --> 00:03:09,296
Kayla: Just weird.

53
00:03:09,368 --> 00:03:27,304
Chris: World of text page your world of text.com culture. Just weird. Like share, subscribe. And it's just cool because we have, like, a bunch of little graffitis on it from people that have dropped by to say how much they like the show and they're listening to it. And one of them is from frickin Iceland.

54
00:03:27,392 --> 00:03:28,720
Kayla: Thanks for stopping by, friends.

55
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,544
Chris: So cool.

56
00:03:29,632 --> 00:03:30,584
Kayla: It's really cool.

57
00:03:30,712 --> 00:03:36,288
Chris: And at some point in the future when Americans are allowed to travel again, I would really love to visit Iceland.

58
00:03:36,344 --> 00:03:36,536
Kayla: Yes.

59
00:03:36,568 --> 00:03:41,616
Chris: It looks beautiful. I just think it's so cool that we have international listeners. I don't know. It's rad.

60
00:03:41,728 --> 00:03:46,440
Kayla: Thanks for going to our. Your world of text. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's fun to scroll around.

61
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:46,920
Chris: It is.

62
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:48,768
Kayla: If you haven't gone there yet, you should check it out.

63
00:03:48,864 --> 00:03:49,240
Chris: Yeah.

64
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,216
Kayla: Is that your business? You ready for my topic?

65
00:03:51,328 --> 00:03:54,968
Chris: Yeah, let's do the content. Let's grind out this content.

66
00:03:55,024 --> 00:03:56,712
Kayla: This is my third episode in a row.

67
00:03:56,896 --> 00:03:59,656
Chris: Yeah, I know, but I had a few in a row. That's how it works.

68
00:03:59,688 --> 00:04:01,180
Kayla: You had two in a row, my friend.

69
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:08,520
Chris: I had two topics in a row. Yeah, so did you. Two episodes in a row. This is a two parter.

70
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:09,208
Kayla: Yeah.

71
00:04:09,304 --> 00:04:13,848
Chris: Maybe we should say that. Actually, it's the second part of a two parter. New listeners may not.

72
00:04:13,904 --> 00:04:19,048
Kayla: Well, if you're listening to this new, go back and listen to the other one first, and this will clearly say, like, part two on it.

73
00:04:19,103 --> 00:04:25,860
Chris: I like how you're. You're like, raising your voice against new. If you're a new listener, you go back to hell. Out of here, stupid.

74
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:35,736
Kayla: No. Thanks for being here if you're a new listener. But yes, this is the second part of a topic that we started talking about two weeks ago, so go back.

75
00:04:35,808 --> 00:04:36,472
Chris: What is.

76
00:04:36,536 --> 00:04:44,208
Kayla: Listen to that one. Don't jump ahead of me in my script, or I will flip a desk and walk out of here like the diva that I am.

77
00:04:44,264 --> 00:04:49,506
Chris: I didn't know you were in a script. Oh, we should do our scripts on world of text from now on.

78
00:04:49,578 --> 00:04:50,874
Kayla: No. Way too hard.

79
00:04:51,002 --> 00:04:53,522
Chris: Why? This was typing. It's all typing.

80
00:04:53,626 --> 00:04:54,866
Kayla: No, no.

81
00:04:54,938 --> 00:04:55,642
Chris: It's a good idea.

82
00:04:55,706 --> 00:04:56,250
Kayla: No, it's not.

83
00:04:56,290 --> 00:04:57,586
Chris: We'll talk about it later. We'll get to that.

84
00:04:57,658 --> 00:05:01,470
Kayla: Okay? So be quiet because now it's time for me to talk.

85
00:05:03,570 --> 00:05:04,510
Chris: Okay?

86
00:05:05,090 --> 00:05:06,946
Kayla: Don't react at all. Let's just power through. No.

87
00:05:06,978 --> 00:05:09,394
Chris: Let's get that TLC drama going.

88
00:05:09,482 --> 00:05:43,500
Kayla: Okay? Two weeks ago, we introduced this topic, the topic of afterlife science, which for our purposes has been defined as the study of phenomena associated with survival of consciousness after death, including near death experiences after death communications, life after life, parentheses death and reincarnation. We also talked about Doctor Gary Schwartz, a psychologist, author, and professor at the University of Arizona, and the director of its laboratory for Advances in Consciousness and Health, who is at the forefront of afterlife science. He is our charismatic leader of this topic.

89
00:05:43,620 --> 00:05:44,668
Chris: Go Wildcats.

90
00:05:44,804 --> 00:06:24,630
Kayla: We also talked about the Forever Family foundation, an organization he founded to, quote further, the understanding of afterlife science through research and education while providing support and healing for people in grief. So this organization vets mediums. They have a recommended reading list that covers everything from life after death and near death experiences to UFO's and remote viewing. And they provide support groups for bereaved parents. Doctor Schwartz's pursuit of afterlife science has a personal bent, as he was originally a professor and researcher of psychiatric and psychological studies such as biofeedback. But when a mysterious voice protected him during a car accident, Doctor Schwartz pivoted his focus and began searching for evidence of the afterlife and the persistence of consciousness after death.

91
00:06:24,750 --> 00:06:51,736
Kayla: A lot of his most well known work took place under the Veritas project at University of Arizona, where he studied mediums such as John Edward and Alison Dubois, mediums who are known to many as, for lack of a better word, frauds. We also talked a lot about how our best accepted science and well known skeptics consider doctor Gary Schwartz's methods and work as unscientific and pseudoscientific, with folks like our beloved James Randy weighing in on his potentially dubious methods.

92
00:06:51,848 --> 00:07:34,584
Chris: Actually, I did. I was thinking about some of the wording that we used in last, or some of the wording that I used in last episode. I don't think it's bad wording. I don't regret it or anything, but it just. I just wanted to say one thing, is that it felt wording. It felt a little mealy to me when I was saying like, well, you know, we don't want to question anybody's experiences, but it's a higher standard for me to accept it into my body of knowledge. And I just didn't want to come off as, like, I don't know. A, I didn't want to come off as, like, weirdly condescending by trying to beat around the bush. And b, I also just kind of wanted to say that, like, I think it's okay.

93
00:07:34,632 --> 00:07:46,304
Chris: And I think, like, for people like you and me, we're very open minded. Sometimes we maybe have a hard time with this, but I think it's okay to actually just sometimes say, I think this person is wrong and their methods are very true.

94
00:07:46,432 --> 00:08:16,576
Kayla: I know for me what I didn't want to be misconstrued when were talking last episode, like, there are. We live in a society where a lot of people's experiences, true lived experiences, are denied. And I never. I don't. I did not want what were talking about here to come off as if you experience something. If you can't prove it in a court of law or in science, then it definitely didn't happen to you. And we should question everything that you say. Like, that's a different topic. But when we're talking about, like, the sciences.

95
00:08:16,688 --> 00:08:40,035
Chris: Yeah. I mean, I think it's a balance. Right? Like, I don't think that you should. Like you said, we shouldn't be denying experiences, but then, like, at the same time, I don't think we should either be just accepting every piece of information that comes into our heads. And I think it's okay to say, I don't like to actually assert, I think that this person is wrong and I don't agree with their methods.

96
00:08:40,148 --> 00:08:51,360
Kayla: Yeah, but that's different than saying I don't think you had that experience. And that's what I want to be clear. Yes. Saying I don't agree with their methods is different than I don't think you had that experience.

97
00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:58,200
Chris: Well, what about the fact that he, like, heard a voice in the cardinal? Do you think he had that experience?

98
00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:08,980
Kayla: I mean, if he either is completely lying, which I don't know, or he did have that experience, and I think there is a non supernatural explanation for it, sure.

99
00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:13,172
Chris: So what about, I don't deny that.

100
00:09:13,196 --> 00:09:15,972
Kayla: He had that experience because as far as I know, he did.

101
00:09:16,156 --> 00:09:18,516
Chris: What about that? But you said it could be that he's lying.

102
00:09:18,628 --> 00:09:31,456
Kayla: Yeah, it could be that he's lying, but I don't know if he's lying or not. Like, that's kind of why we're here. We don't know if. And that's something that we've talked about a lot on the podcast. Like, we don't know for a lot of these charismatic leaders if they drink their own Kool aid or not.

103
00:09:31,568 --> 00:09:33,008
Chris: Right, right.

104
00:09:33,144 --> 00:09:39,020
Kayla: Like, I don't know if all these MLM leaders actually believe that their people are gonna make money.

105
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,624
Chris: Yeah, I think a lot of times they do. Yeah.

106
00:09:42,712 --> 00:10:01,410
Kayla: So I think that somebody like this, it's the same. I don't know if he. People believe in supernatural things. People with degrees, psychologically, psychology degrees from Harvard, believe in ghosts and believe in whatever. Like, it's not to me, it's not cut and dried that he's lying.

107
00:10:01,530 --> 00:10:18,680
Chris: So are we asserting then? Let's. Let's assume that he believes it, because I think a lot of these folks do believe it. Then is our assertion that you think that this happened, you had this experience, and you think that it was due to reason. Xdev, but it wasn't. It was actually due to reason why.

108
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:46,486
Kayla: Yeah, that's why I told the whole, like, ghost story in the beginning of two weeks. The last episode was because we all have, a lot of us have those experiences where we experience something that feels supernatural or preternatural, natural, or can't be explained by our best knowledge. But again, that doesn't necessarily mean that, like, it doesn't really mean that the conclusion that you jump to is the explanation.

109
00:10:46,638 --> 00:10:46,926
Chris: Right.

110
00:10:46,958 --> 00:10:56,462
Kayla: It's God of the gaps. It's like, just because you saw what you have language for as a ghost doesn't mean it's a ghost.

111
00:10:56,566 --> 00:10:58,534
Chris: It doesn't mean that something supernatural is happening.

112
00:10:58,582 --> 00:10:59,070
Kayla: Yeah.

113
00:10:59,190 --> 00:11:00,230
Chris: Right. Okay.

114
00:11:00,270 --> 00:11:13,790
Kayla: Especially when we. Especially when we do know that there are reasons grounded in science and physical reality why some of these experiences can happen. Like, we know that there are natural explanations.

115
00:11:13,870 --> 00:11:16,022
Chris: There's no reason to seek a supernatural.

116
00:11:16,046 --> 00:11:31,122
Kayla: Explanation like infrasound and faulty wiring. Like, we know that those things can fuck with you. Like, we know that there are reasons why a person might see a ghost that isn't necessarily a ghost. So do we feel caught up from last week's episode or two weeks ago?

117
00:11:31,146 --> 00:11:33,430
Chris: This has been. Oh, sorry.

118
00:11:34,330 --> 00:11:36,026
Kayla: Where we laughed off?

119
00:11:36,058 --> 00:11:54,770
Chris: Laughed off. Thank you for indulging me on that, because I thought a little bit about my choice of language there. I don't think it was wrong choice of language. It just felt a little like, what's the way to put this on the podcast? It's like it felt a little like wishy washy. I know what my preference is, but this is a collaborative effort. Rather than just saying I would prefer this.

120
00:11:54,890 --> 00:12:02,722
Kayla: But I mean, again, I just want to be clear. What I'm saying is that I don't know if this person is lying. I just don't agree with their methods.

121
00:12:02,866 --> 00:12:03,506
Chris: Right.

122
00:12:03,658 --> 00:12:05,830
Kayla: And I think that I'm right.

123
00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:08,002
Chris: So I think it's okay to say that.

124
00:12:08,066 --> 00:12:09,950
Kayla: Yeah, I think it's okay to say that I'm right.

125
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:11,436
Chris: Damn right.

126
00:12:11,508 --> 00:12:35,154
Kayla: Damn right. Where we left off last time was hinting that this Gary Schwartz rabbit hole goes even further down and that we need touch on people in the community surrounding Gary Schwartz and the utter strangeness of his more recent projects, the post Veritas projects. Projects. So let's talk about some of those projects. I love the face that you're making.

127
00:12:35,332 --> 00:12:36,310
Chris: It's like a grimace.

128
00:12:36,390 --> 00:13:33,202
Kayla: Yeah, it's the grimace emoji. So we already talked about him founding the Forever Family foundation. He's also written or co authored nine books, 450 scientific papers. I don't know how many of those have been peer reviewed or like, what journals they have been published in. He has a mixed history of publishing in accredited journals and then, like complimentary medicine ghosty journals. So 450 scientific papers. Take that with a grain of salt. He has co edited, because this is the numbers that I'm reading off right now are from his reporting. So again, take it with a grain of salt. Co edited eleven academic books. He has many bona fides. Gary Schwartz is a fellow of the American Psychological association, the American Psychological Society, and the Academy for Behavioral Medicine Research.

129
00:13:33,386 --> 00:13:54,218
Kayla: He received a Young Psychologist Award and an Early Career award for distinguished research from the American Psychological association. He served as president of the Biofeedback Society of America and the Health Psychology Division of the American Psychological association. In 2004, he received a Distinguished Scientist Award for energy psychology from the association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology.

130
00:13:54,354 --> 00:13:55,330
Chris: Energy psychology.

131
00:13:55,410 --> 00:14:05,400
Kayla: Yeah. And in 2000. So again, mixed bag here. And in 2006, he received a Distinguished Scientist Award from the United States Psychotronic association.

132
00:14:05,980 --> 00:14:08,348
Chris: What's the United States Psychotronic association?

133
00:14:08,444 --> 00:14:09,052
Kayla: God knows.

134
00:14:09,116 --> 00:14:12,316
Chris: Is that like psychology of tronics, the movie Tron?

135
00:14:12,388 --> 00:14:21,532
Kayla: Yeah. In 2012, he received the distinguished contribution to the science of psychology from the Arizona Psychological association. He is. So that's a lot.

136
00:14:21,676 --> 00:14:23,960
Chris: That's a lot of letters and associations.

137
00:14:24,610 --> 00:15:22,940
Kayla: A lot of quote unquote bonafides. He is a science advisor for open Sciences, which is a group of 300 plus scientists, professors, doctors, and thought leaders who state in their manifesto that the sciences are being unnecessarily constricted by dogmatic beliefs, in particular those tied to the philosophy of materialism aka physicalism and its untestable background assumptions. These dogmas cast a shadow over both science and society at large, predetermining what questions are acceptable to ask and what phenomena are considered possible. Now, materialism, physicalism is probably its own entire topic. But just touch on it here, there is an idea that trends through these circles, that today's science practices are so tied to the quote unquote, aforementioned untestable nature of our assumptions of reality that we're blind to and critical of schools of thought and areas of study that don't mess with those assumptions.

138
00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:38,390
Kayla: So I saw it explained like this, and this is from something called the Galileo report, which I really don't want to get too into, but it's basically this, like, report being like, we found that science is too dogmatic and y'all should let us study ghosts.

139
00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:41,630
Chris: Why didn't they just call it that Galileo report?

140
00:15:42,130 --> 00:15:54,878
Kayla: So here's how it was explained. One, no human intellectual activity, including science, can escape the fact that it has. That it has to make assumptions that cannot be proven using its own methodology. That is absolute presuppositions.

141
00:15:55,054 --> 00:15:56,342
Chris: Okay? True.

142
00:15:56,366 --> 00:16:25,462
Kayla: So far, the prevalent underlying assumptions or world model of the majority of modern scientists are narrowly naturalist in metaphysics, materialist in ontology, and reductionist empiricist in methodology. Three, the result in the belief that consciousness is nothing but a consequence of complex arrangement of matter or an emergent phenomenon of brain activity. Four, this belief is neither proven nor warranted.

143
00:16:25,646 --> 00:16:27,638
Chris: Five, where did that one come from?

144
00:16:27,734 --> 00:16:33,830
Kayla: In fact, there are well documented empirical phenomenon that contradict this belief. That's what the Galileo report.

145
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:35,550
Chris: Not sure where that one came from either.

146
00:16:35,710 --> 00:16:37,478
Kayla: That's what the report is about.

147
00:16:37,614 --> 00:16:39,478
Chris: I see. So they explain it in the report.

148
00:16:39,574 --> 00:16:51,510
Kayla: Quote unquote, explain again, this whole. This is a whole other topic. It just sounds like it pops up here. So. Yeah, I don't know. Do you have any other reactions to that? Because it's a lot.

149
00:16:52,610 --> 00:16:59,034
Chris: Well, I don't know. Like, it feels like I kind of want to know what's in the report a little bit. But you're saying you don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

150
00:16:59,082 --> 00:17:04,897
Kayla: Like it's a whole thing. Yeah, like, it's basically saying, like, I.

151
00:17:04,914 --> 00:17:05,513
Chris: Get what it's saying.

152
00:17:05,561 --> 00:17:13,076
Kayla: There's the nature of real existence exists, and we're supposing that it exists, and then that. Then scientists go like, you can't question that.

153
00:17:13,258 --> 00:17:13,743
Chris: Right.

154
00:17:13,832 --> 00:17:15,152
Kayla: And therefore ghost. Surreal.

155
00:17:15,256 --> 00:18:00,660
Chris: Right, right. So it. Yeah, that. And that's. So that's the part I said, like, well, that part's true, right? Because there are, in any system of thought or any system of, like, you know, provable theorems, there are axioms that exist in that cannot themselves be proven within that system, right. I think that's, I don't want to out myself being wrong here, but there's, I think that has to do with Godel's incompleteness theorem. So that's like a well known logical thing, right? It's just some of those other things that I would have to read the actual Galileo report to see why they're, how they're trying to justify. Nobody's proven that consciousness comes from matter. Like, I don't.

156
00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:01,412
Kayla: Right.

157
00:18:01,596 --> 00:18:03,012
Chris: I don't know about that.

158
00:18:03,196 --> 00:18:43,790
Kayla: Well, and I, like, I get what they're trying to say. I do understand what they're, I understand some of what they're trying to say. I understand that it's like, hey, even with the scientific method and, like, the incredible advancements we as a species have made in science over the last however many years, like, we still don't know a whole hell of a lot. And we should make sure that, like, our scientific community is open to new ideas and crazy, off the wall things. And, like, I get that there definitely is, like, there is dogma among skeptics and atheists. So, like, who's to say that there isn't sometimes blinding dogma in the field of science, right?

159
00:18:43,830 --> 00:19:12,378
Chris: They're not immune to it. I mean, this itself is an example. This episode, Doctor Gary Schwartz is an example that people in the scientific community are not immune to dogma. So that's definitely true. And I totally see what they're saying about, like, well, if the axioms of science are necessary but also arbitrary, then can't we just pick other ones, right. Sort of out maybe outside the scope of this episode to discuss that? I don't know.

160
00:19:12,514 --> 00:19:13,590
Kayla: It's up to you.

161
00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:16,834
Chris: I don't know if I have a good thing to say about it off the cuff.

162
00:19:16,882 --> 00:19:20,890
Kayla: We have a lot to get to, so we don't have to get too into it. Yeah, let's, I guess I just want.

163
00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:24,042
Chris: To say that we'll get to that. We'll get to metaphysics at some point.

164
00:19:24,146 --> 00:19:47,404
Kayla: So it's worth looking at the dogmas that do exist in, like, our scientific communities and our skeptic communities. But that doesn't discount the fact that, like, yet again, this argument doesn't really hold water and it kind of turns the scientific method backwards on itself to be more about motivated reasoning. Like, we want to believe this thing. We believe this thing. We believe.

165
00:19:47,492 --> 00:19:48,268
Chris: So how are we going to address it?

166
00:19:48,284 --> 00:19:54,500
Kayla: There's metaphysics and we want to find evidence proving it, which. That's literally flat earth.

167
00:19:54,620 --> 00:20:03,154
Chris: Right, but they're questioning science, Kayla, so why would they use science? It's very. It's also a closed logical system. So.

168
00:20:03,202 --> 00:20:04,050
Kayla: Fucks my brain.

169
00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:06,514
Chris: Check and check back to Doctor Schwartz.

170
00:20:06,602 --> 00:20:10,470
Kayla: He is also on the board of directors for Eternia, which is a.

171
00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:12,338
Chris: What's where he man is from?

172
00:20:12,434 --> 00:20:13,018
Kayla: Is it?

173
00:20:13,114 --> 00:20:13,602
Chris: Yeah.

174
00:20:13,706 --> 00:20:15,666
Kayla: E t e r n e a.

175
00:20:15,858 --> 00:20:17,146
Chris: I think it's ia.

176
00:20:17,298 --> 00:20:20,082
Kayla: Well, this is Eternia with an e.

177
00:20:20,146 --> 00:20:22,458
Chris: Not an I. Oh, less cool.

178
00:20:22,514 --> 00:20:56,112
Kayla: And they are a nonprofit organization whose. Their. Their mission is, quote, the mission of Eternia is to support and engage in scientific research, public education, and practical programmatic initiatives to further awareness and acceptance of the fact that eternal existence in some form or manner is a fundamental reality for all living things as an inherent quality of nature. On their landing page, you are met with a graphic of a beautiful blue cloudy sky. And it says, would it help your life right now if you knew or experienced? Question mark.

179
00:20:56,296 --> 00:20:57,900
Chris: If I knew or experienced what?

180
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:32,510
Kayla: It's just a poorly, like, syntactically structured thing. Would it help your life right now if you knew or experienced. And then it has a bunch of things. You don't really die. A fundamental aspect of your consciousness, energy, spirit survives physical death. You are an integral part of source energy, God, universal consciousness. Right now and always were. You have everything you need to handle all of this life's challenges with style. You will, quote, unquote, see your loved ones who have passed on again. Knowing these truths helps you transform yourself and the planet for the better.

181
00:21:32,890 --> 00:21:36,578
Chris: Yeah, so, I mean, I also have.

182
00:21:36,594 --> 00:21:54,960
Kayla: An about section to read for them if you want me to read that. Before you jump to any conclusions here with your dogma. I'm sorry. I'm apologizing to our listeners right now. I cannot be more biased about this topic. You are getting an extremely biased.

183
00:21:55,620 --> 00:21:57,420
Chris: Biased and irresponsible.

184
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:08,004
Kayla: Well, that's my middle name. It's just very clear how I feel about this topic and I'm trying to be balanced. Fair and balanced. It's not working.

185
00:22:08,132 --> 00:22:10,276
Chris: Well, fair and balanced is not the best.

186
00:22:10,428 --> 00:23:01,946
Kayla: No slogan. It's not as we've. That's why reached out to that one. Okay. Eternia's about section. I'm just gonna read it to you. It's a couple paragraphs, so bear with me. Eternia endeavors to contribute to a profound transformation in human nature, behavior, values, perceptions and consciousness. By promoting comprehension of this reality as pervasive throughout the whole of creation, Eternia reasons that recognition of external existence as a basic fact of life on a broad scale could have enormous implications for positive social change around the world, thereby dramatically improving the human condition. Eternia aspires to accomplish its mission through promotion of unity, oneness, harmony, collaboration, cooperation, cohesion and resonance, which are rudimentary, a lot of c words which are rudimentary cornerstones in natural order for the realization of successful and sustainable outcomes.

187
00:23:02,098 --> 00:23:32,860
Kayla: This insight is predicated firmly upon scientific findings, considering both the macro cosmological and micro quantum levels of observation. In this manner, Eternia hopes to provide humankind with analytical, scientific and intellectual basis to adopt the firm conviction that discrete individual consciousness survives physical death and qualitatively evolves throughout eternity, while bearing ultimate responsibility and accountability for individual deeds and actions directed at others and oneself.

188
00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:34,388
Chris: Okay, I have some questions.

189
00:23:34,484 --> 00:23:44,330
Kayla: By undertaking this mission and the strategies underlying it, Eternia hopes to promote the greater good of humanity by serving as an effective catalyst for the overall advancement of human civilization.

190
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:46,562
Chris: Is that their whole website? That was really long?

191
00:23:46,746 --> 00:23:47,594
Kayla: That's thereabout.

192
00:23:47,682 --> 00:23:48,554
Chris: That's thereabout.

193
00:23:48,642 --> 00:23:52,026
Kayla: Oh, their website is huge. Huge.

194
00:23:52,138 --> 00:23:52,842
Chris: That's like.

195
00:23:52,946 --> 00:23:54,026
Kayla: It is enormous.

196
00:23:54,098 --> 00:24:01,794
Chris: That's how you know. That's how you know you're digging into something crazy is because it's like way longer than it should be. It's like those YouTube videos that are.

197
00:24:01,802 --> 00:24:06,642
Kayla: Like 7 hours a week on page. Went back when she was like, yeah. Who she is now.

198
00:24:06,786 --> 00:24:10,242
Chris: Or like the flat Earth YouTube videos where it's like 7 hours.

199
00:24:10,306 --> 00:24:17,250
Kayla: You go on Hulu and you're like, ooh, what's this document about the rothschild and the Illuminati? Oh, it's 14 hours long. Got it.

200
00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:25,982
Chris: It's like how. I don't even know how you would sit through all that. I don't have the patience for 1 hour. It's also like, maybe that's why we're skeptics, is because we're not.

201
00:24:26,006 --> 00:24:27,222
Kayla: I just don't have a good.

202
00:24:27,406 --> 00:24:28,190
Chris: Yeah, it's a patient.

203
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:32,890
Kayla: You throw a lot of words at me and I'm like, fake, fake. School is a witch.

204
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:53,434
Chris: So, wait, so I have some questions about that, actually. Maybe this one's more of an observation, but, like, I don't understand. Are these folks that we're talking about pro science or anti. I can't figure it out. This is something that came out. I know it's something that came up last time, too, in last episode.

205
00:24:53,522 --> 00:24:59,722
Kayla: Okay, they're pro science, but the kind of science that they do, it's like.

206
00:24:59,746 --> 00:25:06,202
Chris: They'Re pro science when they feel like it can legitimize what they're talking about. And otherwise, they're like, science doesn't know.

207
00:25:06,306 --> 00:25:11,466
Kayla: Science doesn't agree with what they're saying, then it. It's not. They're saying it's not. Really?

208
00:25:11,498 --> 00:25:26,522
Chris: Then science is dogmatic. And if science does agree with what they're saying, then it's like, science backs what we're saying. Yeah, yeah. It's just every time you bring up science, like, yeah, I don't know. You just read this whole thing from the Galileo project about, like, why science is too dogmatic.

209
00:25:26,586 --> 00:25:27,186
Kayla: Yeah.

210
00:25:27,338 --> 00:25:31,266
Chris: And then you read this whole thing where it's like, we can prove it with quantum things.

211
00:25:31,338 --> 00:25:38,562
Kayla: I know. It's also, like, they're about as nice. Like, sure, I get. You know what, dude?

212
00:25:38,586 --> 00:25:39,522
Chris: I would love that.

213
00:25:39,666 --> 00:25:53,546
Kayla: Okay? I would love to exist eternally, but not even that. I do think it's. It's really cool to be like, hey, we have a mission. Our mission on this earth is to get human beings to treat each other.

214
00:25:53,658 --> 00:26:05,384
Chris: Better, actually treat each other better, because they're not just saying, like, eternal life. Dope. Right? They're saying, like, eternal life. And I. Therefore, let's all better than this one.

215
00:26:05,432 --> 00:26:16,744
Kayla: If you knew you existed forever and this was gonna, like, be who you were forever, you would treat other people differently and yourself differently, and you would behave differently, and that also feels very religious.

216
00:26:16,872 --> 00:26:17,224
Chris: Yeah.

217
00:26:17,272 --> 00:26:19,648
Kayla: And I don't mean that as a knock at all.

218
00:26:19,704 --> 00:26:24,688
Chris: If I live forever, I could get canceled in the year, like, 30, 75. That would not be good.

219
00:26:24,704 --> 00:26:31,078
Kayla: I'm not that you could keep your masked singer job and goddess, but it.

220
00:26:31,254 --> 00:26:33,090
Chris: Eternal. Cancel culture.

221
00:26:33,630 --> 00:27:04,584
Kayla: One can only hope. But it does feel very like sometimes people don't understand how other people have morality if they don't have religion. Like, how other people have morality if there's not that promise of eternal life. And so I understand why people might look for non religious ways to kind of meet that same need or fill that gap. I don't think we need. I personally don't think I need the threat of eternal life in order to, like, try and be a good person.

222
00:27:04,672 --> 00:27:10,056
Chris: Yeah, you have the threat of a future super intelligence that's gonna punish you.

223
00:27:10,248 --> 00:27:11,760
Kayla: I just have the threat of cancel culture.

224
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:23,314
Chris: Oh, right. Let's do an episode. Like, what makes you moral? Is it Jesus, cancel culture or Rokos basilisk D. All of the above?

225
00:27:23,442 --> 00:27:28,870
Kayla: Yes, just all of the above. What is that? That was from rock with basket, where you just, like, believe in everything and you're good.

226
00:27:29,170 --> 00:27:35,390
Chris: Right? Right. That's like the ultimate Pascal's wager, Pascal's solution. Do I believe in it? Yes, just in case.

227
00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:50,364
Kayla: So I understand. And I think it's great to try and get people to be nicer to each other. Also lame. Come on. You're not doing science here.

228
00:27:50,492 --> 00:27:50,916
Chris: Yeah.

229
00:27:50,988 --> 00:28:17,162
Kayla: You're not. If you have. If you have an entire website about how not just a hypothesis of yours is correct, but how, like, your entire eternal worldview and your view of the universe and everything, including cosmology and quantum reality, you know it all, and you're gonna prove it with science. Like, you're not science. You're not doing science.

230
00:28:17,306 --> 00:28:23,714
Chris: Not to get pedantic here, but my question number two is going to be, how do they know that we're eternal? Because eternity hasn't happened yet.

231
00:28:23,802 --> 00:28:29,546
Kayla: Well, because a lot of the people that work on things like this. Well, it's my next point.

232
00:28:29,658 --> 00:29:14,850
Chris: Okay, well, wait, can I ask my third one? Yes. Well, actually, this is. The third one is also maybe more of an observation. But the third thing was just kind of tying it back to, like, the metaphysics of. Well, you know, what are the axioms? Right. And if. I think that actually, a lot of it comes back to. There's. There's sort of two major things. There's either objective reality exists and we come from that, or conscious reality exists, and everything else comes from that. It's either existence first or consciousness first. That's kind of it. Right? Those. Those are your choices. And I think that's why a lot of these, like, all of these new agey type things that we've talked about on the show and probably will talk about on the show again, all have that same feature of, you are God.

233
00:29:14,970 --> 00:29:15,490
Kayla: Right.

234
00:29:15,610 --> 00:29:24,770
Chris: It's not a coincidence. It's because they're all of that metaphysical starting point, that metaphysical axiom, consciousness first.

235
00:29:24,850 --> 00:29:34,126
Kayla: It's like whether you're Ramtha and saying, literally, you are God and you can change your entire reality, or it's the teal swan or the this of, like, you're part of source.

236
00:29:34,278 --> 00:29:35,046
Chris: Right, right.

237
00:29:35,078 --> 00:29:35,902
Kayla: It's the same thing.

238
00:29:35,966 --> 00:29:51,526
Chris: And I think that's, to me, if I'm gonna sit here and say, why would I accept one axiom versus the other when they're not? Neither of them are provable within their system. It seems to me that it's based on my lived experience. How do I wanna put this.

239
00:29:51,558 --> 00:29:55,270
Kayla: Sorry that you're not God. Yeah, I know that.

240
00:29:55,310 --> 00:29:58,524
Chris: I am just a dirty wormhood.

241
00:29:58,562 --> 00:30:00,680
Kayla: My life sucks. So clearly I'm not God.

242
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:14,656
Chris: Yeah, I'm not president, despite saying grab him. But, oh, no. So, no, no. It's more just like, not everyone can be God. Because otherwise reality as we know it wouldn't work. It's impossible.

243
00:30:14,728 --> 00:30:15,104
Kayla: Right.

244
00:30:15,192 --> 00:30:24,488
Chris: If everybody was doctor Manhattan. Sorry to use a. If everybody was all powerful. For those of you that don't know, like, semi obscure comic culture.

245
00:30:24,544 --> 00:30:26,032
Kayla: Oh, yeah. Watchmen is so obscure.

246
00:30:26,056 --> 00:30:29,560
Chris: Okay, well, it's not obscure anymore because now there's a very successful HBO show.

247
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,680
Kayla: Oh, my God. So obscure and esoteric.

248
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:36,556
Chris: Do you think that all of our listeners are gonna know what watchmen is?

249
00:30:36,628 --> 00:30:38,948
Kayla: I just don't wanna condescend to be I hate you.

250
00:30:39,004 --> 00:30:51,956
Chris: I'm trying not to. I'm trying to connect. Not to say, like, you guys don't know, fuck you. No. So what I was gonna say is that reality doesn't work if everybody gets to be their own God.

251
00:30:52,068 --> 00:30:53,400
Kayla: I can argue with that.

252
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:56,018
Chris: Whose will wins out?

253
00:30:56,204 --> 00:31:08,814
Kayla: We all. It's solipsism is right. We all live in our own, like, our own multiverses, where we are the God of that multiverse, the God of that universe.

254
00:31:08,902 --> 00:31:09,270
Chris: I see.

255
00:31:09,310 --> 00:31:13,742
Kayla: So every single consciousness, so you don't exist is what you're saying, has its own universe? Yes.

256
00:31:13,766 --> 00:31:15,118
Chris: You're a figment of my imagination.

257
00:31:15,214 --> 00:31:16,934
Kayla: Or are you a figment of mine, as are.

258
00:31:17,022 --> 00:31:19,590
Chris: Well, no, because I exist and you don't.

259
00:31:19,630 --> 00:31:21,054
Kayla: No, I exist and you don't.

260
00:31:21,182 --> 00:31:23,494
Chris: That's exactly what a figment of my imagination would say.

261
00:31:23,542 --> 00:31:24,172
Kayla: Agreed.

262
00:31:24,286 --> 00:31:30,104
Chris: Also, all of our listeners, or should I say my listeners, since you don't exist. My listeners, you guys don't exist either.

263
00:31:30,152 --> 00:31:34,448
Kayla: Yeah, sorry. Or you are the masters of your own reality in your own universe.

264
00:31:34,544 --> 00:31:34,920
Chris: Right.

265
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,152
Kayla: That's the only way they're in their.

266
00:31:36,176 --> 00:31:38,904
Chris: Own universe where they're doing the podcast right now.

267
00:31:38,952 --> 00:31:43,864
Kayla: Yeah, but, like, that's the only way that, like, consciousness first works.

268
00:31:43,912 --> 00:31:44,160
Chris: Yes.

269
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,320
Kayla: And it doesn't.

270
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:57,324
Chris: And I would much rather. And maybe this comes down to a preference then. I don't know. But I would much rather live in a reality where other people exist.

271
00:31:57,412 --> 00:31:58,276
Kayla: Me too.

272
00:31:58,468 --> 00:32:00,276
Chris: And I don't have ultimate power.

273
00:32:00,428 --> 00:32:05,212
Kayla: You saw what happened in Westworld. Yeah, I don't want to live in Westworld.

274
00:32:05,356 --> 00:32:09,308
Chris: Yeah, yeah. They turned Dolores into a totally one dimensional character in the second season.

275
00:32:09,364 --> 00:32:10,484
Kayla: Not what I mean, but sure.

276
00:32:10,572 --> 00:32:11,724
Chris: Oh, sorry.

277
00:32:11,852 --> 00:32:31,904
Kayla: I just mean, like, that view of, like, if you're trying to square your God in your own universe, and also you should treat other people kind. It just doesn't quite. It doesn't quite all square for me. So I agree with you that my preference and my belief is that we. It's existence first universe.

278
00:32:31,952 --> 00:32:56,818
Chris: Well, it's even more fundamental than kindness, really. It's like it just plain old doesn't work. Even if I want something, if my preference or my whatever, I'm God like, working my will on my personal universe, right? If you're there too, and you do something contradictory, if you say unstoppable force and I say immovable object, something has to give and whichever one gives, all of a sudden, not God anymore.

279
00:32:56,874 --> 00:32:57,178
Kayla: Yeah.

280
00:32:57,234 --> 00:33:23,076
Chris: So either we live in a reality with other people, which is what I prefer. I would. I hope that you're not actually a figment. Figment of my imagination, or we have godlike power, and that's. That, to me, is what defeats that set of axioms as the fundamental. From what you go from. That's. That's ultimately why I prefer science.

281
00:33:23,188 --> 00:33:24,604
Kayla: Yeah, I agree.

282
00:33:24,732 --> 00:33:25,988
Chris: It's because I like friends.

283
00:33:26,124 --> 00:33:31,732
Kayla: Speaking of friends, I should probably take a second here to come back to Doctor Schwartz's friends, as I mentioned.

284
00:33:31,796 --> 00:33:33,908
Chris: Oh, what a segue.

285
00:33:34,044 --> 00:34:19,800
Kayla: I know. And we're gonna talk about, like, why the why for some of these people and why they do this. So during all of my research, scouring the websites for the Forever Family Foundation, Eternia open sciences, and everything else touched by Doctor Schwartz, I kept running into the same handful of names. Like, it feels like there's a large core group of scientifically presenting personalities that all hang out in each other's organizations, all publish and promote each other's work, and all support the idea that human consciousness exists beyond the brain and there's life after death. And in a lot of these cases, each person has a personal experience that convinced them of the afterlife or the supernatural, often transforming them from a rational skeptic into a spiritual believer.

286
00:34:20,219 --> 00:34:57,231
Kayla: So some of these figures are Eben Alexander III, MD, who is a neurosurgeon whose near death experience convinced him that there is an afterlife and consciousness survives death, which is detailed in his book proof of heaven. And he is a co founder of Eternia, Raymond Moody, PhD, MD, a philosopher, psychologist, and doctor who coined the term near death experience in his book life after life. This is back in, like, the seventies, and this is after he encountered anecdotal stories of near death experiences. Also a board member of Eternia, Mark Pittstick, MA, DC I looked up with the masters of something Mad C. It's.

287
00:34:57,295 --> 00:35:01,119
Chris: Like Doctor Masters of DC Comics, but we're talking about comics a lot in this one.

288
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:32,820
Kayla: Complementary medicine, something like that. A hospital worker with 47 years of experience in a hospital setting, and Claire audient, who has witnessed miracles and Ste's, which are spiritually transformative experiences. He's also a board member of Eternia. Julie Beischel, PhD, who received her degree in pharmacology and toxicology and minored in microbiology and immunology at U of A. She focused her career on testing mediums after having a positive experience with a medium after she lost her mother. And that's really just the tip of the iceberg.

289
00:35:32,860 --> 00:35:47,794
Chris: Yeah, I see why this one kind of freaked you out. The same way that talking about Dejafar. Thank you. And Ben lynch and the folks around that freaked me out because there's so many accolades and trainings and titles, right.

290
00:35:47,962 --> 00:36:13,972
Kayla: It becomes hard for me to look at these people and not wonder, like, okay, well, is there some motivated reasoning coming along with your claims? Like, you've had personal experiences that convince you there must be more, and then you spend your life on research trying to prove it. Yeah, like, remember my ghost story? Did I believe I saw ghosts because I saw them or saw ghosts because I believe them is me thinking there's a ratchet and like, well, okay, so.

291
00:36:13,996 --> 00:36:25,852
Chris: Hold on for that particular thing. I am not sure I want to call motivated reasoning on that. I think it's certainly possible. I mean, they probably have motivated reasoning anyway.

292
00:36:25,916 --> 00:36:26,388
Kayla: I'm just saying I can't.

293
00:36:26,404 --> 00:36:38,026
Chris: But I'm not sure that. Right, but I'm not sure that I want to equate having an experience that drives your life's work to motivated reasoning. Or maybe, I don't know. Unless we want to say that's true for everyone.

294
00:36:38,138 --> 00:36:38,506
Kayla: I think.

295
00:36:38,538 --> 00:36:39,890
Chris: Because I think that happens with a lot of people.

296
00:36:39,970 --> 00:37:07,822
Kayla: I think if you. If you are a scientist and you have a supernatural experience, and then instead of going, I want to figure out what happened, you go, I want to figure out how to prove it. What this. The supernatural thing that happened? Because that's not what. Like, doctor Schwartz didn't hear a voice and then immediately go like, maybe I should get a. A CAT scan and MRI. Maybe I should, like, spend half my time studying neurology and the other half of my time studying the maybe metaphysical, right.

297
00:37:07,846 --> 00:37:10,318
Chris: He immediately jumped to the one possible.

298
00:37:10,414 --> 00:37:16,718
Kayla: Yeah, that, to me, is, what is the motivated reasoning? It's that I believe this thing. Now, and so now.

299
00:37:16,814 --> 00:37:17,462
Chris: That's a good point.

300
00:37:17,526 --> 00:37:22,590
Kayla: Prove it. It's not the same as, like, I had an experience, and I want to understand it. I'm passionate about it.

301
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:22,950
Chris: Right.

302
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:23,550
Kayla: It's. It's.

303
00:37:23,590 --> 00:37:35,782
Chris: The scientist should say, do something different with it. A scientist should say, something happened to me. I would like to know more. I want to know what happened, not something happened to me, and I would like to therefore prove that it's the thing that I think.

304
00:37:35,846 --> 00:37:51,014
Kayla: Right. Another unifying theme amongst all these folks. Well, you've already heard it. Keep an open mind. Keep an open mind for everything. Otherwise, you're dogmatically rejecting the very ideas, experiences, and advances that will take humanity to the next level.

305
00:37:51,182 --> 00:37:56,764
Chris: Ooh. You don't want to be responsible for preventing humanity from transcending Kayla. Yeah, come on.

306
00:37:56,812 --> 00:37:58,748
Kayla: Keep an open mind. You dogmatic.

307
00:37:58,804 --> 00:38:03,000
Chris: You party pooper bitch. You transhumanist party pooper.

308
00:38:03,380 --> 00:38:08,680
Kayla: So, okay, this is where it gets weird.

309
00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:10,988
Chris: So, wait, this is where it gets weird?

310
00:38:11,044 --> 00:38:11,396
Kayla: Yeah.

311
00:38:11,468 --> 00:38:12,440
Chris: Oh, my God.

312
00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:15,108
Kayla: So, like, this is.

313
00:38:15,124 --> 00:38:16,140
Chris: Where do I need to smoke?

314
00:38:16,180 --> 00:38:19,720
Kayla: This is where it jumps. The motherfucking shark.

315
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:23,012
Chris: I can't believe that we haven't jumped the sharon. No, we jumping.

316
00:38:23,076 --> 00:38:24,476
Kayla: We are about to jump. We were jumping.

317
00:38:24,508 --> 00:38:26,480
Chris: It was like a barracuda guppies before.

318
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:44,568
Kayla: Okay, so as I jump. As I jump into the last stop on our journey through doctor Schwartz's professional life. And, you know, I mentioned last episode, things are gonna get weird. I urge you, Chris, and our listeners to keep an open mind so that.

319
00:38:44,584 --> 00:38:45,728
Chris: I don't prevent us. Yeah.

320
00:38:45,784 --> 00:38:54,580
Kayla: Yes. I would like now to talk to you about soul phone. Don't laugh.

321
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,872
Chris: Stop. I can't do that.

322
00:38:56,896 --> 00:38:57,632
Kayla: Don't laugh.

323
00:38:57,776 --> 00:38:59,352
Chris: Just stop recording.

324
00:38:59,376 --> 00:39:00,820
Kayla: What do you think soul phone is?

325
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,440
Chris: Is it a tv show?

326
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:03,880
Kayla: No.

327
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:14,496
Chris: Is it. Is it, like. Is it like Soul plane, the movie, except with a phone? Do I. Like, I call Soul phone and, like, aretha Franklin's on the other side?

328
00:39:14,568 --> 00:39:15,180
Kayla: No.

329
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,198
Chris: What is it?

330
00:39:18,264 --> 00:39:38,510
Kayla: Soul phone is a lot, but I'll do my best here. Soul phone is the general name of the current project doctor Gary E. Schwartz is spearheading, along with his research assistant, doctor Mark Pittstick, whose name you'll remember from earlier. The soul phone brings spirit communication to life.

331
00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:48,056
Chris: Okay, so that's. I mean, aside from all the joking about soul plane or whatever. That's a good guess. That's kind of what I was thinking.

332
00:39:48,168 --> 00:39:53,344
Kayla: At the risk of just fucking reading shit to you again, let me read you the landing page for cell phone.

333
00:39:53,472 --> 00:39:58,096
Chris: Okay, but hold on. I was. This is. If it's talking to the dead, then that's kind of what I was picturing.

334
00:39:58,168 --> 00:40:11,936
Kayla: Yeah, but we'll get to that. What would it mean if you could communicate with departed loved ones and learn from scientists, great teachers, and others who have passed on, but definitely not passed away?

335
00:40:12,088 --> 00:40:15,820
Chris: Wait, hold up. It's not just my own family members. It's like.

336
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:17,208
Kayla: Oh, just wait.

337
00:40:17,264 --> 00:40:18,176
Chris: Oh. Oh, shit.

338
00:40:18,208 --> 00:40:18,824
Kayla: Oh, just wait.

339
00:40:18,872 --> 00:40:20,180
Chris: How much does this cost?

340
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,288
Kayla: Just wait.

341
00:40:21,344 --> 00:40:22,136
Chris: I want to do it.

342
00:40:22,208 --> 00:41:13,644
Kayla: Just wait. It may sound impossible, but it's not. Do you feel there may be an afterlife where you'll continue to live after physical death? Do you think deceased people, especially your loved ones, can contact you now? Can you imagine that technology may someday enable visits with loved ones living on the other side? After your body dies? Would you want to visit with your loved ones who are still on earth? If you answered yes to just one of these questions, you may be interested to learn more about technological breakthroughs that could enable reliable communication with those who have passed on. The soul phone TM devices will someday allow you to visit with your deceased loved ones. That may sound impossible or too good to be true. However, definitive replicated and multicenter scientific experiments run in 2019 show it isn't only.

343
00:41:13,692 --> 00:41:18,320
Chris: 1999 a minute, 199 each additional minute.

344
00:41:18,620 --> 00:41:27,772
Kayla: As I got into cell phone, and I'm still not convinced that it's not, but I was like, there's an MLM somewhere here. There's somewhere in here. There's an MLM.

345
00:41:27,836 --> 00:41:28,756
Chris: There's gotta be.

346
00:41:28,868 --> 00:41:32,510
Kayla: I did not find it. I don't think there is. But I was like, there's an MLM.

347
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:39,958
Chris: Maybe it's an MLM of the dead. Maybe it's like, maybe your upline is the deceased, and then, I don't really know.

348
00:41:40,014 --> 00:41:42,870
Kayla: Upline is the living and your downline is the dead. Or the other.

349
00:41:42,990 --> 00:41:44,730
Chris: Something like that, yeah.

350
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:58,944
Kayla: Also on the landing page, you're met with a video from doctor Mark Pittstick himself, recorded in March of 2020, reiterating that, again, science has proven that there is life after death and we can communicate with passed on loved ones. He states that the.

351
00:41:58,992 --> 00:42:01,152
Chris: Is there an asterisk that science has not proven this?

352
00:42:01,216 --> 00:42:15,152
Kayla: No, no. He's like, we did it. I know we did it. He states that the two benefits of soul phone will be the ability to communicate with dead loved ones and to learn more from dead scientists and teachers.

353
00:42:15,336 --> 00:42:21,048
Chris: What's the expiration? Because this is like, seriously, this is the quintessential dinner party question, right?

354
00:42:21,144 --> 00:42:22,776
Kayla: This is like, I don't think there's an expiration.

355
00:42:22,808 --> 00:42:25,754
Chris: Can I talk to Alexander the great and Jesus, like?

356
00:42:25,802 --> 00:42:26,670
Kayla: I think so.

357
00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:30,050
Chris: Okay, so I need to put my list together.

358
00:42:30,170 --> 00:42:48,250
Kayla: Well, the next step is for hopefuls just like you to become a member and raise funds for R and D. Your donation helps. Share this great news. Oh, also, come on.

359
00:42:48,290 --> 00:42:48,922
Chris: U of a.

360
00:42:48,986 --> 00:43:03,988
Kayla: The cell phone Foundation 501 application is still pending with the IR's Jesus. Your donation helps. Share this great news. Where else have you heard the phrase, have you heard the good news? Let me share this great news with you.

361
00:43:04,044 --> 00:43:07,188
Chris: Like, that is very mega church.

362
00:43:07,244 --> 00:43:15,228
Kayla: Yeah, yeah. It's just. It was so interesting to keep hitting. Great news. Great news. I was like, there's only one other area where I've heard this.

363
00:43:15,284 --> 00:43:16,012
Chris: Yeah.

364
00:43:16,196 --> 00:43:42,862
Kayla: Some other advisors on this project include Raymond Moody, the guy who coined the phrase near death experience, allegedly Eben Alexander, the guy who wrote proof of heaven. Before that, he was a neurosurgeon, as well as at least eight, quote, evidential medium advisors, including some mediums who were part of Doctor Schwartz's afterlife experiments. The rest of the team working on sulfone includes software specialists, electrical engineers, and optical physicists.

365
00:43:43,046 --> 00:43:48,420
Chris: I can't believe this is being incubated at, like, a major university.

366
00:43:50,040 --> 00:44:26,274
Kayla: Babe, babe. It gets so much worse. It's also worth noting this is just, like, some technical stuff. It's worth noting that soul phone and the Soul phone Foundation fall under another umbrella company organization called greater Reality Living Registered Trademark, which is a book and movement created together by Doctor Schwartz and Doctor Pittsztik. The term greater reality living describes how you might choose to live as you expand your awareness of life. How would you live and treat others and yourself if you deeply knew that life continues?

367
00:44:26,322 --> 00:44:29,690
Chris: I would kill a bunch of people because it doesn't matter. They're going to live on. It would be awesome.

368
00:44:29,770 --> 00:44:39,322
Kayla: Why does there need to be a real life GTA and greater living experience and soul phone and family? They're all saying the same thing because.

369
00:44:39,346 --> 00:44:46,300
Chris: They'Re all different ways to grift. This is why, like, remember I was saying last episode, I'm not. This guy is not.

370
00:44:46,380 --> 00:44:47,436
Kayla: He's not passing your smell test.

371
00:44:47,468 --> 00:44:55,116
Chris: He's not passing my. He believes his own shit smell test. I don't know. He's sounding pretty grift heavy to me.

372
00:44:55,148 --> 00:45:27,746
Kayla: We'll get to that. So, greater reality living is basically a community for people who are grieving death or fearing death to all come together in their belief that life continues after death. So there are events. There's online support groups, there's local support groups trained facilitators who run these groups. And there's a store. And Soul phone is basically another branch of this larger trademark 501 c three organization. I wanted to show you the Soul phone Foundation logo and the greater reality living logos. They're the same. It's the same logo.

373
00:45:27,818 --> 00:45:29,618
Chris: Oh, wait, that's two different places.

374
00:45:29,674 --> 00:45:39,532
Kayla: Yeah. The Soul phone foundation on top, it just has a little bit more like, wispiness around it. And then greater reality living, they're both just like green and yellow spiral circles. And one has.

375
00:45:39,556 --> 00:45:41,116
Chris: And those aren't the same organization.

376
00:45:41,308 --> 00:45:47,356
Kayla: They're friends. Soul fun foundation is like in the umbrella of greater reality living.

377
00:45:47,468 --> 00:46:07,774
Chris: That'd be like if Pepsico. I'm not sure. I think Yum brands owns them all now. But if they just used that blue and red Pepsi logo for Taco Bell and KFC as well. That's what that's like. It's just lazy. Or maybe it saves money. And if you're. That's your goal, then I get it.

378
00:46:07,862 --> 00:46:24,582
Kayla: That's their logos. There's also a book called Soul Proof, subtitled compelling evidence. You are an infinite spiritual being that Doctor Pittstick wrote that has its own corresponding website that is connected to both soul phone and greater reality living. So it's just. It's quite a tangled web over there.

379
00:46:24,726 --> 00:46:26,810
Chris: Yeah. That's surprising.

380
00:46:27,110 --> 00:46:33,340
Kayla: So that's the foundation, the fundraising arm supporting R and D of Soul phone devices. Yes, devices.

381
00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:34,220
Chris: Devices.

382
00:46:34,380 --> 00:46:36,596
Kayla: Because the development of the soul phone.

383
00:46:36,668 --> 00:46:38,724
Chris: Wait, why isn't it an app? It really ought to be an app.

384
00:46:38,772 --> 00:46:39,460
Kayla: It's not an app.

385
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:41,236
Chris: Aren't they trying to make a lot of money?

386
00:46:41,348 --> 00:46:59,196
Kayla: The development of the Soul phone will happen in stages, each new device more spectacular than the last. The first device is the sole switch, TM, which currently exists at U of A, or like some form of. It exists at U of A. And it's basically a little device that switches on or off to indicate yes or no.

387
00:46:59,268 --> 00:47:00,654
Chris: God, tell me there's pictures of.

388
00:47:00,732 --> 00:47:06,750
Kayla: There is a picture. I don't know if it's a real picture of something or if it's like a concept.

389
00:47:07,050 --> 00:47:09,498
Chris: And that's concept art is perfect. That's great.

390
00:47:09,594 --> 00:47:23,350
Kayla: Just for the soul switch. The accompanying art for these other devices is just stock art of people being on the phone.

391
00:47:25,530 --> 00:47:28,986
Chris: Well, that certainly goes with their trying to save money on art theme.

392
00:47:29,058 --> 00:47:38,676
Kayla: Yeah. So the sol switch, basically, a device switches on or off to indicate yes or no when communicating with hypothesized post material collaborators or hpcs.

393
00:47:38,868 --> 00:47:39,364
Chris: What?

394
00:47:39,452 --> 00:47:57,486
Kayla: We'll get to that. What the f is that the next step will be Soul keyboard TM, in which a series of soul switches will be able to create a keyboard. So, this stage of the Soul phone device would allow you to text like you can now with your cell phone, with loved ones who have changed worlds.

395
00:47:57,558 --> 00:48:07,358
Chris: And then can it be an app? Can I text with my deceased loved one? Can I text Genghis Khan? He'll probably be getting a lot of texts.

396
00:48:07,534 --> 00:48:08,542
Kayla: I don't know.

397
00:48:08,646 --> 00:48:13,046
Chris: I need to find somebody who's less famous, but, like, still cool.

398
00:48:13,118 --> 00:48:14,382
Kayla: Can you guess what's next?

399
00:48:14,526 --> 00:48:22,902
Chris: Not that he's cool. He killed a lot of people. Let's see. So the first one is soul switch and soul keyboard. Soul texting. So I. Soul voice.

400
00:48:22,966 --> 00:48:23,230
Kayla: Yep.

401
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:23,654
Chris: Soul.

402
00:48:23,742 --> 00:48:26,406
Kayla: Soul voice. Tm. Quote, this device.

403
00:48:26,478 --> 00:48:27,534
Chris: Soul podcasting.

404
00:48:27,622 --> 00:48:40,614
Kayla: Not yet. This. Well, we'll get to that. This device will be the closest to what people think of when they hear the term soul phone. It will let you talk on the phone and hear those that have died. And they say, like, we don't know what this will look like, but it'll be like talking on the phone.

405
00:48:40,662 --> 00:48:42,318
Chris: Like, our listeners can hear us right now.

406
00:48:42,374 --> 00:48:44,610
Kayla: Yeah, but with a dead person.

407
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:52,364
Chris: Okay. Oh. Oh, no. I don't speak Macedonian. I'm gonna have to learn different languages and stuff.

408
00:48:52,412 --> 00:48:53,040
Kayla: Yeah.

409
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:58,760
Chris: I mean, even Macedonians today probably don't speak whatever the hell Alexander the Great spoke.

410
00:48:59,340 --> 00:49:01,396
Kayla: I sense there may be a problem here.

411
00:49:01,508 --> 00:49:05,076
Chris: Oh, no. Okay. Note to self.

412
00:49:05,148 --> 00:49:11,320
Kayla: Finally, let me read to you about the last stage of these devices, which, of course, is soul video tm.

413
00:49:11,620 --> 00:49:12,860
Chris: Oh, shit.

414
00:49:13,020 --> 00:49:54,680
Kayla: Wait. After that, we envision a Soul video device technology that will allow both video and audio visits, much like present day Skype, FaceTime, or Zoom. Wait, wait. Audio video conferencing is the next best thing to really being together. This stage of development will open new doors to continued relationships with those who have passed on, but definitely not passed away. Wait. Soul video. Wait. Soul video will also enable webinars with esteemed, deceased luminaries. They are not suffering from limited sense perceptions, as most humans do, and can enjoy a more unobstructed view of life. In addition, just wait.

415
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:55,432
Chris: So many questions.

416
00:49:55,496 --> 00:49:59,168
Kayla: They have been working on ways to improve what they were doing while living on earth.

417
00:49:59,304 --> 00:50:00,144
Chris: Oh, so it's.

418
00:50:00,232 --> 00:50:07,040
Kayla: Wait, it's like. It's like the good place, as Nikola Tesla said during one meeting.

419
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,480
Chris: Well, they already had a meeting with Nicole Tesla.

420
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:15,060
Kayla: If you think what I was inventing while on earth was amazing, wait until you see what I've been working on here.

421
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:23,288
Chris: Okay. All right. So first things first. I am now 100% sure that these guys are lion grifters.

422
00:50:23,344 --> 00:50:24,120
Kayla: You think so?

423
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:30,660
Chris: Oh, yeah, yeah. There's no way. Like, it's far too.

424
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:43,570
Kayla: How is this real? This is what I was. This is what I was reading about that made me check. Changed my entire topic. I got to soul phone, and I was like, I'm sorry, this is real.

425
00:50:44,430 --> 00:51:01,294
Chris: Okay. Second of all, webinars. So are we talking, like, could I have, like, a conference call? Would it be like, hello? Hello? Are you. Is afterlife on? Yeah, is afterlife. I can't hear. Oh, okay. I can hear you. You're just a little staticky. Are you on mute? Does afterlife have. Okay, we're here from the conference room.

426
00:51:01,342 --> 00:51:05,650
Kayla: It's like a. It's literally like a Skype call, but, like, the person on the computer is, like, a little more, like, grainy.

427
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:16,974
Chris: Well, that was actually. My next question is, like, what do they look like? Do they look like ghosts? Do they look like they did in life? Do they look like rotting corpses? Skeletons, maybe? Does it depend on what we don't know.

428
00:51:17,062 --> 00:51:19,662
Kayla: That's why you need to donate to them for the R and D. Well.

429
00:51:19,686 --> 00:51:22,090
Chris: I thought I was just donating to them for the good news.

430
00:51:22,430 --> 00:51:24,246
Kayla: No, that's to help spread the good news.

431
00:51:24,318 --> 00:51:28,958
Chris: And also the R and D start spreading the news. Got it. Okay.

432
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:34,730
Kayla: So say to say that you're feeling skeptical, right?

433
00:51:35,230 --> 00:51:37,730
Chris: I don't even. Skeptical is not the right word anymore.

434
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:45,730
Kayla: Let me tell you right now, there's still a little ways to fall.

435
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:54,214
Chris: Oh, okay. Way to slow roll this. I'm proud of you. This is where your Hollywood writing skills are coming in handy.

436
00:51:54,382 --> 00:52:00,458
Kayla: This is. This is all I have wanted to talk to you about for, like, a month and a half.

437
00:52:00,474 --> 00:52:01,194
Chris: This is incredible.

438
00:52:01,282 --> 00:52:06,026
Kayla: Soul phone. It's all I've been able to think about since I discovered this. Soul phone.

439
00:52:06,058 --> 00:52:06,898
Chris: What if they're not available?

440
00:52:06,994 --> 00:52:07,594
Kayla: Soul phone.

441
00:52:07,642 --> 00:52:09,426
Chris: Is there hold music for the afterlife?

442
00:52:09,498 --> 00:52:15,770
Kayla: I don't know. Ask beetlejuice. Soul phone. Soul phone. Okay.

443
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:20,210
Chris: You know, I'm gonna have, like, probably another 80 questions as we continue the show.

444
00:52:20,370 --> 00:52:23,730
Kayla: That's okay. You know what? Have all of your questions.

445
00:52:23,850 --> 00:52:25,550
Chris: Is there afterlife call waiting?

446
00:52:26,650 --> 00:52:28,338
Kayla: Hold all of your questions for a moment.

447
00:52:28,434 --> 00:52:37,322
Chris: What does it. You know how, like, when you call a place now, like, even if you've never called them before, you're like, no, it says the name, you know, like Johnny's pizzeria or whatever. Like, if I.

448
00:52:37,346 --> 00:52:41,710
Kayla: What happens when they call you? Is it just gonna be like, you're dead dad. Like, what is it?

449
00:52:42,970 --> 00:52:50,202
Chris: Yeah. Cause it can't just be like, dad cell. Because I would assume that, like, somebody's calling from the. Like, his old cell phone.

450
00:52:50,306 --> 00:52:53,736
Kayla: That's why it's like, they're saying it's not really a phone. It's gonna be completely new device.

451
00:52:53,768 --> 00:52:54,888
Chris: Oh, it's a different device. Okay.

452
00:52:54,904 --> 00:52:55,800
Kayla: You don't know what it looks like.

453
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:03,408
Chris: Yeah, but here's the thing, Kayla, is that our personal devices now are an amalgamation of things that used to be different devices.

454
00:53:03,544 --> 00:53:04,320
Kayla: Hold on.

455
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:05,300
Chris: Like, there's.

456
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,552
Kayla: Don't get too. No, I'm gonna talk about that.

457
00:53:08,616 --> 00:53:10,020
Chris: Oh, my God.

458
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:10,800
Kayla: Stop.

459
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,440
Chris: All right, sorry. Just go. Just go.

460
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:47,360
Kayla: You shouldn't feel skeptical because there is a. Does a soul phone seem possible? Section where doctor Pittstick explains that when he was ten in 1963, his phone had. His phone number only had five digits and it was still a party line. He would have thought that smartphones were all of these, like, where your camera and your radio and your maps and your emails, because they knew what emails were in 1963. If they were all on the same technology, he would have just thought that was crazy. But the technology is out there now. So just 30 years later, cell phones were patented, and now we've got the computing power in our pockets that was used to send men to the moon.

461
00:53:47,780 --> 00:53:48,644
Chris: More than that.

462
00:53:48,732 --> 00:54:34,450
Kayla: More than that. The rapid development in communication technology shows that the development of technology used to communicate with the deceased is just as crazy and just as possible. Oh, also, there's. This was the part. I mean, this was the part where I lost my mind. Hold on. There's a whole section about Googlymmo Marconi probably saying that name wrong. The inventor of the radio, Thomas Edison, the prolific electric power and mass communication inventor, and Alexander Graham Bell, the inventor of the telephone. At first glance, this news about communication with the dead might seem impossible or even ridiculous to you. Perhaps it would open your mind a bit more if you knew that three inventors from the last century endeavored to create similar devices. There is very little cited in the rest of the article.

463
00:54:34,570 --> 00:55:08,392
Kayla: It's just a picture of each man with a one sentence explanation. Bell tried to make a telephone to the dead. Edison worked on a spirit finder. Marconi experimented with a radio to the dead. The article concludes by comparing doctor Schwartz's work with soul phone and afterlife communications to the achievements of these men. Marconi and Bell and Edison were genius scientists who helped the world in powerful ways. The many advantages of Doctor Schwarz's work cannot be fully imagined, but you get to benefit from them. All right, so this topic killed me, okay? It destroyed me.

464
00:55:08,456 --> 00:55:45,512
Chris: I don't actually know that much about Marconi. I do know that Mister Bell was second to the plate on the whole phone thing. I forget who invented it first, but he was actually second. He just was the one that was able to make it succeed. Mister Edison. More of a patent troll than a genius scientist. But whatever they all wanted to make us, I if. And that means I don't trust it coming from that source. But if we, like Snopes that, or if. You know, I don't know if, like, I read that somewhere. I mean, maybe we should check it out. Cause it wouldn't surprise me, honestly.

465
00:55:45,576 --> 00:55:47,056
Kayla: No, it doesn't surprise me at all.

466
00:55:47,208 --> 00:55:51,304
Chris: Or all three of those guys had tried to do that as like a later in life. They tried.

467
00:55:51,352 --> 00:56:07,830
Kayla: Absolutely fucking lutely. I don't doubt that they did. But that is such a logical fallacy, such a appeal to authority of, like, well, Alexander Graham Bell tried to make a telephone to the dead. So you're telling me that doctor Schwartz can't do it. Like, that's literally what it is.

468
00:56:08,330 --> 00:56:09,130
Chris: Right, right.

469
00:56:09,210 --> 00:56:09,842
Kayla: That's why it's.

470
00:56:09,866 --> 00:56:11,394
Chris: And it's like, it's a super appeal to authority.

471
00:56:11,442 --> 00:56:20,090
Kayla: It also. There's nothing cited. It's just like. You think this is crazy. Well, Alexander Graham Bell didn't think it was crazy. Here's a picture of him. He wanted to make a soul phone.

472
00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:21,670
Chris: Trust us. Look at his picture.

473
00:56:24,250 --> 00:56:27,070
Kayla: Are you still not convinced about the reality of soul phone?

474
00:56:27,450 --> 00:56:30,850
Chris: Yes. Are you reading from the site or are you.

475
00:56:30,890 --> 00:56:35,208
Kayla: Oh, that's from me. Do you still have your 80?

476
00:56:35,264 --> 00:56:37,008
Chris: Are you recruiting me into your Mlm?

477
00:56:37,104 --> 00:56:39,620
Kayla: No, this is just what happens when I get really mad.

478
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,720
Chris: I don't know why you're mad. This sounds amazing.

479
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:53,440
Kayla: I'm so mad. Don't worry. I know you said before you had 80 questions. Well, they have answers to common concerns section as well as a skeptics corner.

480
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,056
Chris: Ooh, a skeptics corner.

481
00:56:55,168 --> 00:57:15,088
Kayla: Both sections are set up as faqs, though one's a little more interesting than the other. Skeptics corner addresses questions like, does established science require that life after physical death is impossible? And are all mediums frauds? All pretty standard questions that are answered with whatever skepticism you have is wrong. Isn't that great?

482
00:57:15,264 --> 00:57:21,576
Chris: Oh, yeah, that is great. Do they do the thing with mediums where it's like, well, some mediums are frauds, yes.

483
00:57:21,608 --> 00:57:21,872
Kayla: Oh, yeah.

484
00:57:21,896 --> 00:57:27,354
Chris: But our mediums are not frauds, which is exactly like the well, we're not in a legal pyramid scheme.

485
00:57:27,402 --> 00:58:08,680
Kayla: So it's literally that answers to common concerns is a little more interesting. There are nine questions total, four of which are things like, will communicating with spirits leave oneself open to evil interference like standard cell phone concerns? But then the last five questions are, let me read them to you. What about the sland? What about slanderous attacks many years ago against Doctor Schwartz? Doctor Schwartz, how many attacks have been leveled against your work? Why do you think these unsubstantiated allegations occurred? I understand that ten years ago, a journalist falsely reported an incident involving you. Where did these untrue accusations come from?

486
00:58:09,860 --> 00:58:15,244
Chris: Okay, what are you referring to? And also, I can't wait till they add our podcast to this list.

487
00:58:15,372 --> 00:58:49,570
Kayla: Oh, yeah, we're on the list. So, Doctor Schwartz answers. On numerous occasions, I have experienced unfair, unjust, and even malicious reactions from certain people ever since I went public with my afterlife research. In the HBO documentary life after life, I have recounted examples of this extremely unprofessional and irresponsible behavior in my books, the Afterlife Experiments, 2002, the truth about medium, the Sacred Promise, 2011, and an atheist in heaven, 2016. So he basically goes like, read my books. If you want to know, we can talk.

488
00:58:49,690 --> 00:58:52,330
Chris: What about your slanderous attacks? Buy my book.

489
00:58:52,490 --> 00:59:12,294
Kayla: He does talk a little bit more about it. I just thought it was funny that it was, that we're going to talk a little bit more, a little bit later about the specific attacks on Doctor Schwartz. But I just wanted to point out here what an interesting little section we've got. So moving on. The site has calls to action for anyone who wants to support soul phone.

490
00:59:12,402 --> 00:59:13,590
Chris: Soul calls to action.

491
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:19,294
Kayla: Soul calls to action. I invite you to a share this information with others.

492
00:59:19,462 --> 00:59:21,958
Chris: We're sharing it with our whole audience right now. You're welcome.

493
00:59:22,014 --> 00:59:23,054
Kayla: Sharing the good news.

494
00:59:23,182 --> 00:59:23,718
Chris: That's right.

495
00:59:23,774 --> 00:59:39,218
Kayla: Two subscribe to Free Soul Phone foundation, greater reality living e newsletters c become a member and or donor D attend online and our local greater reality living groups. We are just starting the group, so start one if there's not an established one in your area.

496
00:59:39,334 --> 00:59:40,394
Chris: Done. Let's do it.

497
00:59:40,482 --> 00:59:57,802
Kayla: Donations level go from $5 a month to one time donations of $10,000 or more. Each donation level receives benefits just like a Patreon or a GoFundMe, ranging from signed books to free ebooks to personal meetings with doctor Schwartz himself. Other ways to get involved.

498
00:59:57,866 --> 00:59:59,914
Chris: That's like the top tier Kickstarter.

499
01:00:00,042 --> 01:00:03,722
Kayla: Yeah, it's, you get to like, you fly out to Arizona and like actually, that was exactly.

500
01:00:03,746 --> 01:00:07,880
Chris: That was one of the things that Star Citizen was doing is you could meet Chris Roberts.

501
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:23,600
Kayla: Very star citizen here. You can also attend seed events, soul phone education, ethics, and demonstrations, which are demonstrations of the soul phone device. You can book hope sessions. Have opportunity for post material experience where you.

502
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,944
Chris: Whoa. Oh, that's an acronym?

503
01:00:25,992 --> 01:00:26,320
Kayla: Yes.

504
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:27,500
Chris: Wait, what was it again?

505
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:33,902
Kayla: Have opportunity for post material experience where you can visit with a deceased loved one.

506
01:00:34,006 --> 01:00:34,590
Chris: Okay.

507
01:00:34,670 --> 01:00:57,810
Kayla: You can learn more about the project on a number of podcasts and radio shows that have interviewed the two doctors. Or you can join about 1600 other people who follow their facebook page. So, lots of ways to get involved. It's funny that they're fundraising like this, Imo. Especially because one of the ways doctor Schwartz believes soul phone will help people in the future is by protecting people from shady mediums who are just looking to take advantage of grieving people for money.

508
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:04,420
Chris: Oh, my God. I give up.

509
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:05,944
Kayla: Not yet.

510
01:01:06,072 --> 01:01:06,752
Chris: I'm done.

511
01:01:06,856 --> 01:01:07,792
Kayla: We still have a ways to fall.

512
01:01:07,816 --> 01:01:08,608
Chris: Podcast is over.

513
01:01:08,664 --> 01:01:20,120
Kayla: We still have a ways to fall, my friend. Okay, let's talk some specifics. An article in jewish news discussed an early version of Soul phone in 2015.

514
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:21,016
Chris: What's jewish news?

515
01:01:21,048 --> 01:01:30,070
Kayla: Is that like a jewish news is. This particular website is a local Arizona community news site for jewish issues.

516
01:01:30,190 --> 01:01:30,582
Chris: Got it.

517
01:01:30,606 --> 01:01:59,146
Kayla: And Jewish News. So this article discussed an early version of cell phone in 2015, which was simply a computer outfitted with the ability to read and display patterns of background radiation, which Doctor Schwartz believes spirits can manipulate and alter the patterns to communicate with the living. In this article, a specific pattern was being displayed that Doctor Schwartz called the Sophia pattern. So the name was given to Doctor Schwartz by three different mediums. So when this pattern popped up, three different mediums were like, that's Sophia talking to you.

518
01:01:59,298 --> 01:02:00,338
Chris: Who's Sophia?

519
01:02:00,474 --> 01:02:02,870
Kayla: The ghost. The ghost is talking to him.

520
01:02:03,210 --> 01:02:04,522
Chris: Is it the golden girl?

521
01:02:04,666 --> 01:02:12,830
Kayla: Yes. When the computer displays two specific blue lines, Doctor Schwartz believes it is indicative that Sophia has entered the room and is attempting to communicate.

522
01:02:13,410 --> 01:02:35,244
Chris: Why do the ghosts have this weird way of commun. Like, why can't they just like, pop up and be like, hey, what's up? Why. Why is it this, like, encoded? It's like. It's like with Q and honors where it's like, oh, everybody's. It's all in code. The way that everybody communicates is with secret symbols.

523
01:02:35,332 --> 01:02:38,580
Kayla: I don't know. You have to ask doctor Schwartz.

524
01:02:38,740 --> 01:02:47,360
Chris: Is he. Is he coming on the show? Because I would love doctor Schwartz, if you're out there, we would love to have you on the show talking about your stuff. I know it sounds like we're attacking you.

525
01:02:48,110 --> 01:02:49,254
Kayla: I'm definitely attacking.

526
01:02:49,302 --> 01:02:51,850
Chris: We are, but totally come on the show though.

527
01:02:52,390 --> 01:03:30,850
Kayla: Quote from the article. Schwartz seeks enough repetition of the pattern to rule out chance, the possibility that it's random. He says he'll enter the room and ask, is anybody here? If Sophia's yes pattern displays. He'll ask if this is you, Sophia, please show me your sign. If he sees the double bar in the next 15 to 20 seconds, he'll ask Sophia to repeat the pattern. If he asks a yes or no question, he requires seeing three yeses in a row before he accepts it as yes. Doctor Schwartz explains the technology like, just because a star no longer exists doesn't mean that we no longer have the light from the star. There is no longer any question about whether this statistically works. However, it is not reliable enough yet.

528
01:03:30,930 --> 01:03:58,040
Kayla: Can we take it from a scientifically statistical phenomenon to a reliable phenomenon that makes it useful in real life? We're working on that. We are close to experiencing a Wright brothers moment with regards to the technology of detecting spirit. The question now is, what will it become and what can it become? And how long will it take for us to reach the point where it is working so effortlessly that all of us take all of this for granted? Is it possible that we may be awakening to the reality of using technology to create sacred partnerships?

529
01:04:03,180 --> 01:04:12,296
Chris: He's also betraying a common, but lack of understanding of general relativity with his star comment there.

530
01:04:12,448 --> 01:04:13,300
Kayla: Explain.

531
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:15,504
Chris: It's a little bit hard to explain.

532
01:04:15,552 --> 01:04:17,260
Kayla: You're the one who fucking brought it up.

533
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:24,792
Chris: I'm just trying to attack this guy, okay? Don't make me justify my shit. Jesus. They don't have to. Why should I?

534
01:04:24,896 --> 01:04:25,740
Kayla: That's true.

535
01:04:26,600 --> 01:05:01,726
Chris: It's the common sort of way of understanding this, actually. I should have said special relativity. The common way of understanding how things work is that like, oh, a star can blow up and you wouldn't know it till the light reaches you, which is true. But like, in a very real, like, physics way, if you don't know something has happened yet because its light cone hasn't intersected with yours, it's in a. In a very sort. Because the concept of, like, simultaneity isn't actually absolute across the universe.

536
01:05:01,758 --> 01:05:02,472
Kayla: Right. I.

537
01:05:02,606 --> 01:05:25,156
Chris: There's no physical validity in saying that something happening millions of light years away is happening, quote unquote, now, without its light reaching you. Like, it's all like, you have to think of light less as light and more as, like a way of connecting causality across causality and knowledge across different parts of the universe.

538
01:05:25,228 --> 01:05:29,808
Kayla: That's why I say that it doesn't work on Star Trek when they're like.

539
01:05:29,904 --> 01:05:32,736
Chris: It'S been, nothing works on Star Trek. Nothing.

540
01:05:32,808 --> 01:05:37,340
Kayla: And you're like, no, it does. And I'm like, no, it doesn't. Agrees with me.

541
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:44,744
Chris: I thought you were saying other things. I thought you were saying, like, why are they able to use, like, earth time? You can still, like, measure.

542
01:05:44,832 --> 01:06:00,640
Kayla: I know. I'm saying that. Whatever, whatever. Is it possible that we may be awakening to the reality of using technology to create sacred partners? Speaking of sacred partnerships, this is where we hit our rock bottom.

543
01:06:01,020 --> 01:06:01,916
Chris: Ooh, good.

544
01:06:01,988 --> 01:06:02,708
Kayla: Yes.

545
01:06:02,884 --> 01:06:06,196
Chris: Are we at terminal vlog? Like, how badly am I going to be heard? We've been following a long time.

546
01:06:06,268 --> 01:06:27,360
Kayla: You're going to get Gwen Stacyd. The most recent update on soul phone, the 2020 update, posted by Mark Pittstick earlier this year, includes an incredible development in the soul phone project. And honestly, it is maybe the biggest scientific breakthrough of our time. Like, of our. Of all of our lifetimes. Like, are you ready for this?

547
01:06:27,980 --> 01:06:34,004
Chris: Cell phones are topic, by the way. Right? Like, it's not Doctor Schwarz. It's not afterlife. Like, it's cell phone is the episode. Right?

548
01:06:34,092 --> 01:06:36,684
Kayla: I just was trying to figure out how a way to do a cell phone is the episode.

549
01:06:36,732 --> 01:06:38,676
Chris: Okay. Okay.

550
01:06:38,788 --> 01:06:39,964
Kayla: Are you ready for this?

551
01:06:40,052 --> 01:06:40,732
Chris: No.

552
01:06:40,916 --> 01:06:58,926
Kayla: Quote. A team of post material inventors, scientists and other luminaries have assisted the research and development of soul phone. Literal genius ghosts are working with Doctor Schwartz to help make soul phone a reality.

553
01:06:58,998 --> 01:07:01,718
Chris: Wait, that didn't mean people who are studying that.

554
01:07:01,774 --> 01:07:18,200
Kayla: No, that meant post material dead inventors. That's where I think the Nikola Tesla thing came in from. Cause the website does not explain to what the fuck that Nikola Tesla quote is. And I am pretty sure it's this.

555
01:07:18,740 --> 01:07:24,652
Chris: So part of the development team for this project is ghosts?

556
01:07:24,716 --> 01:07:37,692
Kayla: Yes. Actually, we haven't hit rock bottom yet. So in addition.

557
01:07:37,836 --> 01:07:38,880
Chris: Wait, I'm still.

558
01:07:39,470 --> 01:07:47,734
Kayla: In addition to all the optical physicists and electrical engineers working on cell phone, Doctor Schwartz's team is also collaborating directly with scientists from beyond the grave.

559
01:07:47,822 --> 01:07:48,382
Chris: Oh my God.

560
01:07:48,446 --> 01:08:00,622
Kayla: In 2010, Rhonda Eckland, MA, an evidential research medium working with Doctor Schwartz on this project, began to connect with a number of quote hypothesized post material collaborators. HPCs. You'll recall that from earlier.

561
01:08:00,806 --> 01:08:04,094
Chris: Okay, okay. But it's not what HPC is.

562
01:08:04,182 --> 01:08:11,310
Kayla: At least ten other evidential mediums have. Have independently corroborated the desire of these passed on scientists to help out with the project.

563
01:08:11,470 --> 01:08:15,254
Chris: Actually, if I were dad, I would want to help make a soul phone as well.

564
01:08:15,302 --> 01:08:15,630
Kayla: Agreed.

565
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:20,729
Chris: Although, actually, hold on. Wait. Why wouldn't I just be like, eh, I forget. Soul phone. I can talk through the mediums.

566
01:08:21,229 --> 01:08:22,109
Kayla: I don't know.

567
01:08:22,229 --> 01:08:28,729
Chris: Cause clearly I can communicate well enough via a medium in order to collaborate on a complex scientific project.

568
01:08:29,590 --> 01:08:37,064
Kayla: I don't know. Okay, let me read you this passage from the website describing this event. Quote, this is.

569
01:08:37,112 --> 01:08:39,328
Chris: This is. I know I've already said this, but.

570
01:08:39,344 --> 01:08:40,112
Kayla: This is very bad.

571
01:08:40,176 --> 01:08:42,580
Chris: Definitely a grift. Definitely.

572
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:53,823
Kayla: A team of HPCs came together to work with Rhonda and Doctor Schwartz. Each deceased luminary brought a unique set of talents, expertise, and an apparent, genuine commitment to help with the building of this technology.

573
01:08:53,912 --> 01:08:55,551
Chris: Oh, shit. It's like the dead a team.

574
01:08:55,696 --> 01:08:58,380
Kayla: The members of the a team. Oh, shit.

575
01:09:00,290 --> 01:09:01,450
Chris: Maybe they'll hire me.

576
01:09:01,529 --> 01:09:08,714
Kayla: Include scientists, inventors, businesspersons, laypeople, and entertainers. Some whose names you would recognize.

577
01:09:08,841 --> 01:09:10,921
Chris: Ooh. Appeal to that authority.

578
01:09:10,986 --> 01:09:25,050
Kayla: However, as doctor Schwartz says, it's not about the team. It's about the technology. It's about the potential to positively transform many people in our world. These HPCs continue to play a critical role in the research to this day.

579
01:09:25,170 --> 01:09:30,663
Chris: I love that they have an acronym for it. It's just so. I'm making chef kiss hands right now.

580
01:09:30,712 --> 01:09:32,359
Kayla: Do you want to know who some of these luminaries are?

581
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:33,256
Chris: Definitely.

582
01:09:33,368 --> 01:09:43,064
Kayla: Oh, well, sorry. Because it's not about the team. It's about the technology. Whoever these luminaries are that make up the spirit team, they aren't identified on the soul phone website anywhere. In fact.

583
01:09:43,192 --> 01:09:45,511
Chris: Hold on. Why wouldn't they just make that up? Like, why would.

584
01:09:45,536 --> 01:09:53,176
Kayla: Oh, oh. I will tell you why. In fact, we are gonna have to wait for Rhonda Eckland to release her next books to learn about this.

585
01:09:53,663 --> 01:09:54,200
Chris: Okay.

586
01:09:54,279 --> 01:10:07,610
Kayla: According to her site quote, details of how the relationships of these individual spirits were made, along with the communications, research, and experiments being conducted with them, will be shared in Rhonda's next books. Keep watching for their release. Maybe I should.

587
01:10:07,650 --> 01:10:13,002
Chris: I actually kind of respect the amount of thought that went into this grift. Like, that's. That's some long term thinking.

588
01:10:13,066 --> 01:10:25,650
Kayla: I'm about to blow you out the water. Maybe I should point out here that Rhonda Eckland changed her name to Rhonda Ekland Schwartz in 2006 when she met and married doctor Gary Schwartz, and the two have worked together ever since.

589
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:31,606
Chris: Oh, man. It's like our long term project with this podcast where we're gonna start a cult.

590
01:10:31,678 --> 01:10:35,170
Kayla: Yeah. Yeah.

591
01:10:42,350 --> 01:10:54,666
Chris: So is he running for president or like, not yet. Okay. I don't. I don't. Just. Just keep reading. I don't have anything. I don't have words.

592
01:10:54,778 --> 01:11:04,602
Kayla: If you think that's controversial, that doctor Schwartz and his medium wife, Rhonda Eklund, are gonna release a book soon telling you about all of the Nikola Tesla's that they worked with.

593
01:11:04,666 --> 01:11:07,914
Chris: I don't think it's controversial. I think that it's definitely bunk.

594
01:11:08,002 --> 01:11:16,762
Kayla: Well, there's no controversy. I'm gonna keep using the word controversial because I want to talk about the controversy that was mentioned on the soul phone website itself. Remember doctor Schwartz?

595
01:11:16,866 --> 01:11:18,910
Chris: Oh, that's right, teach the controversy.

596
01:11:19,330 --> 01:11:24,242
Kayla: In 2007. Geraldo Rivera, luminary.

597
01:11:24,346 --> 01:11:25,002
Chris: Okay, yeah.

598
01:11:25,066 --> 01:11:31,706
Kayla: Called Doctor Schwartz out on his show claiming that doctor Schwartz had, quote, overstepped his position as a university researcher.

599
01:11:31,898 --> 01:11:33,066
Chris: Oh, Geraldo.

600
01:11:33,178 --> 01:11:37,034
Kayla: By requesting money from a bereaved father to fund research in a mediumship.

601
01:11:37,202 --> 01:11:44,870
Chris: But oh, man, what. What a douchebag. I mean, I guess that's what he's been doing this whole time, but still, it's like, well.

602
01:11:46,630 --> 01:12:23,730
Kayla: I'll get into it. Doctor Schwartz has what he considers to be a perfectly reasonable explanation for soliciting a recently bereaved person for millions of dollars to further research into afterlife science. Doctor Schwartz claimed that the wealthy father read the afterlife experiments book, had several sessions with one of the mediums discussed in the book, and was so grateful for the experience, he called Doctor Schwartz and asked how he could help advance the research into mediumship. I told the father that if he was really that wealthy, he might consider creating an endowed named professorship in afterlife science at a major university in honor of his deceased son. I suggested that he could do so in the son's name.

603
01:12:24,150 --> 01:13:07,030
Kayla: Doctor Schwartz suggested he donate $3.5 million to a university of his choosing in order to create the endowment, which is where Geraldo supposedly got, like, his numbers from. But the story doesn't end there. Doctor Schwartz now claims that the wealthy father had a shady history and had been in federal prison in the past. Apparently, he wanted to go into business with Doctor Schwartz and create a paid service connecting thousands of worldwide mediums to clients. And Doctor Schwartz, of course, said no. He could only endorse nonprofits in this arena. But he agreed there was a need to connect grieving parents to the emerging field of afterlife science and connect them to certified mediums. And thus, the Forever Family foundation was born. Bringing it all back to the beginning.

604
01:13:07,770 --> 01:13:11,738
Chris: So this endowment is why he is currently at.

605
01:13:11,834 --> 01:13:12,306
Kayla: No.

606
01:13:12,418 --> 01:13:13,546
Chris: Oh, no. Okay.

607
01:13:13,618 --> 01:13:58,330
Kayla: No. He was like, you should make an endowment. You, the dead father or the deceased. The bereaved father called him and was like, Doctor Schwartz, thank you so much for your incredible work. I want to know how I can help keep, you know, help further this research. And Doctor Schwartz was like, give. Give three and a half million dollars in the form of an endowment to university of your choosing for a position of afterlife sciences. And instead of going like, good idea, Doctor Schwartz, the guy supposedly went like, I got a mustache twirl. Why don't you and I team up, make a business out of this? And doctor Schwartz went, no, I must not. I am high and moral, and instead I will create a 501 c three called the Forever Family foundation, connecting deceased parents to the emerging field of afterlife science.

608
01:13:58,830 --> 01:14:00,934
Chris: So he did it anyway, just without this guy's money.

609
01:14:00,982 --> 01:14:02,022
Kayla: Yeah. Yes.

610
01:14:02,046 --> 01:14:02,590
Chris: Okay.

611
01:14:02,710 --> 01:14:09,290
Kayla: Doctor Schwartz claimed that the wealthy father was furious with him and tried to get even, I guess, by enlisting Geraldo's help.

612
01:14:09,790 --> 01:14:21,036
Chris: Okay, so that's why he's on the Geraldo program, is because he had this idea, and Doctor Schwartz stole it and started a business and non profit. Sorry. Started a 501.

613
01:14:21,188 --> 01:14:31,436
Kayla: Doctor Schwartz, that'll be. Nonprofits are extremely important, and many of them do incredibly good work. And then also, there's, like, a whole bunch that are just making people rich.

614
01:14:31,548 --> 01:14:39,828
Chris: Yeah, nonprofit. All that means is that you don't have to show a profit as an entity. It doesn't mean that the people can't take big old salaries.

615
01:14:39,924 --> 01:15:04,516
Kayla: Doctor Schwartz, which is a beloved go to for conspiracy theorists. So it's like, such a double edged sword. There's, like, so many conspiracy theorists that are like, such and such. 501, it's just a making money thing for that person that I don't like. But then also, sometimes they do it. Doctor Schwartz also notes that he was advised to sue Geraldo for this slander, but he himself decided to take the high road.

616
01:15:04,548 --> 01:15:06,280
Chris: Oh, he keeps taking the high road. Good for him.

617
01:15:06,580 --> 01:15:20,034
Kayla: So there you have it. The life and times of doctor Gary Schwartz. From biofeedback researcher to mysterious voice experiencer to forever Family foundation, founder and now creator and developer of the soul phone. I just want to.

618
01:15:20,042 --> 01:15:21,746
Chris: Is there a jingle to the soul phone?

619
01:15:21,818 --> 01:15:29,190
Kayla: They're like, soul phone, soul phone. Call your dad. Dad. He's really sad. I don't know.

620
01:15:34,570 --> 01:15:42,434
Chris: Oh, my God, please, if I die, just make sure you call me on the soul phone.

621
01:15:42,482 --> 01:16:05,070
Kayla: Okay. Before we get to our judging, I just want to go back to the beginning of this journey really quick because remember, I told that ghost story to kind of explain how I don't think our experiences are science. Things aren't science just because you say they are. And following motivated reasoning down a rabbit hole can take you to some pretty dubious places.

622
01:16:05,450 --> 01:16:09,898
Chris: And so what you're saying is you want to confirm if it was a ghost by using the soul.

623
01:16:09,954 --> 01:16:11,450
Kayla: I want to call the ghost on the soul phone.

624
01:16:11,490 --> 01:16:16,746
Chris: You're like, hey, were you at this address in 1987?

625
01:16:16,898 --> 01:16:18,322
Kayla: I was. Negative one.

626
01:16:18,426 --> 01:16:22,070
Chris: Whatever. I just. I pulled the number out of my good job.

627
01:16:22,610 --> 01:17:08,200
Kayla: The ghost I saw wasn't real just because I said it was. Life after death isn't supported by science just because doctor Schwartz says it is. It also scientific explanat like, this is a whole other topic. But I just wanted to end this by saying scientific explanations for supernatural experiences doesn't diminish those experiences. In fact, I think scientific explanation for magical things only makes those magical things even more beautiful. And I wish we could spend more time and energy and give more of our individual reverence to those things than the Gary Schwartze of the world. And I want to read this quote from physician doctor Melvin Morse, who I did not research. I just got this quote from him. He might be also a shuck stirring an asshole, but I just like this quote.

628
01:17:09,300 --> 01:17:12,320
Chris: Content warning maybe asshole didn't research.

629
01:17:14,140 --> 01:17:27,110
Kayla: Simply because religious experiences are brain based does not automatically lessen or demean their spiritual significance. Indeed, the findings of neurological substrates to religious experiences can be argued to provide evidence for their objective reality.

630
01:17:28,530 --> 01:17:36,674
Chris: Yeah, I mean, we talk about this a lot that, like spirituality and supernaturality. Is that a word? Supernaturalism?

631
01:17:36,722 --> 01:17:38,298
Kayla: It is. Now, anything can be anything.

632
01:17:38,354 --> 01:17:58,418
Chris: The supernatural. That's true. Are not synonyms. Yeah, you can have spiritual experiences from art and science and things that existed in the physical, real world just as much as you can from talking about ghosts and supernatural experiences as well.

633
01:17:58,474 --> 01:18:25,958
Kayla: And if science was able to explain to me, like, why I saw exactly what I saw, that's just as incredible. That's just as magical as, well, it's a ghost. If science is able to figure out why our brains do that, incredible that a, that people can figure that shit out, and then b, our brains work like that. Like, I have reverence for that. That is spiritual to me. It doesn't have to be supernatural.

634
01:18:26,014 --> 01:18:43,686
Chris: Yeah. Studying brains and consciousness is already sort of like a magical thing, like the fact that a physical piece of the universe is able to be awake and conscious enough to wonder what it is yeah. Is a very spiritual thing to contemplate.

635
01:18:43,758 --> 01:19:02,650
Kayla: Yeah. So I don't think we need to. I don't think we need the doctor Schwartz's in our world. I don't think we need them. I don't think they're adding to our spiritual experiences of the world. I think that in many ways, it's a distraction, and I don't like them.

636
01:19:03,350 --> 01:19:04,174
Chris: What a butthead.

637
01:19:04,222 --> 01:19:05,118
Kayla: I don't like them.

638
01:19:05,254 --> 01:19:15,232
Chris: Yeah. And I mean, I would even say, also, like we said this last week or last episode, but it's fine to want to apply science to understanding, to what happens to a human after they die.

639
01:19:15,336 --> 01:19:16,184
Kayla: Absolutely.

640
01:19:16,312 --> 01:19:28,816
Chris: But do it in a. In an actually scientific manner and commit to it. And don't cherry pick science when you want to prove something and say, not everything is scientific and skept when you don't.

641
01:19:28,888 --> 01:19:29,504
Kayla: Right.

642
01:19:29,672 --> 01:19:31,544
Chris: And also soul phone.

643
01:19:31,672 --> 01:19:32,576
Kayla: Soul phone.

644
01:19:32,688 --> 01:19:33,820
Chris: Soul phone.

645
01:19:34,210 --> 01:19:37,550
Kayla: You're gonna have. We're gonna have webinars from.

646
01:19:39,530 --> 01:19:42,626
Chris: Listen, man, it's. It's 2020. I'm done with the zoom thing.

647
01:19:42,658 --> 01:19:49,230
Kayla: I don't, you know, like, maybe gonna kill cell phone. Everyone's zoom fatigue.

648
01:19:51,970 --> 01:19:55,042
Chris: Holy shit. Criteria time.

649
01:19:55,106 --> 01:19:55,466
Kayla: Yeah.

650
01:19:55,538 --> 01:20:03,518
Chris: Dude, where's the paper? Oh, we got it. Yeah. You always do this for, like, ten minutes.

651
01:20:03,654 --> 01:20:04,750
Kayla: I learned it from watching you.

652
01:20:04,790 --> 01:20:07,958
Chris: I know. I wish that I hadn't done it ever. All right.

653
01:20:08,094 --> 01:20:13,610
Kayla: I don't know what the topic is. I think that. I think the topic, obviously, soul. It's not soul phone. It's after, like.

654
01:20:14,830 --> 01:20:18,998
Chris: It's definitely soul phone. We said afterlife sciences was. Was last week.

655
01:20:19,174 --> 01:20:20,662
Kayla: We didn't even know.

656
01:20:20,686 --> 01:20:35,242
Chris: This is a part two. Yeah, I know it's all together, but it's. I'm sorry. This whole topic has been soul phones. I don't care what you say. All right, let's start with charismatic leader. I like starting at the bottom.

657
01:20:35,386 --> 01:20:36,394
Kayla: Very there.

658
01:20:36,522 --> 01:20:37,122
Chris: That's there.

659
01:20:37,186 --> 01:20:39,074
Kayla: Present af. He's got an HBO documentary.

660
01:20:39,122 --> 01:20:40,186
Chris: Is she charismatic?

661
01:20:40,298 --> 01:20:44,546
Kayla: He is charismatic enough that he is part of an HBO documentary. He has all these.

662
01:20:44,578 --> 01:20:45,594
Chris: His beard's pretty sweet.

663
01:20:45,642 --> 01:20:54,690
Kayla: He's got all these fucking mediums on his side. He has all these other dudes on his side. He has a professorship at an accredited university. Like, he is.

664
01:20:54,730 --> 01:20:56,466
Chris: He has ghosts working for him.

665
01:20:56,498 --> 01:21:00,190
Kayla: He's got literal. Nikola Tesla's probably working for him right now.

666
01:21:00,370 --> 01:21:01,198
Chris: Holy shit.

667
01:21:01,254 --> 01:21:08,050
Kayla: He's like. He's got a wife. Who, I will point out is not the wife from his story of hearing the mysterious voice.

668
01:21:09,470 --> 01:21:10,134
Chris: Okay.

669
01:21:10,222 --> 01:21:10,686
Kayla: I don't know.

670
01:21:10,718 --> 01:21:11,294
Chris: Different wife.

671
01:21:11,382 --> 01:21:15,062
Kayla: I don't know why that's relevant. But I feel like it is different.

672
01:21:15,126 --> 01:21:16,606
Chris: Wife after life.

673
01:21:16,678 --> 01:21:18,926
Kayla: Yeah. I don't know.

674
01:21:19,118 --> 01:21:22,650
Chris: Okay, so, hi. Ritual.

675
01:21:23,550 --> 01:21:26,370
Kayla: I say rituals high because it's all, like.

676
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:30,296
Chris: It's all the weird fake experiments and sitting around with mediums.

677
01:21:30,328 --> 01:21:31,376
Kayla: You're doing the ritual of.

678
01:21:31,408 --> 01:21:33,608
Chris: The ritual of attaching electrodes to.

679
01:21:33,624 --> 01:21:38,136
Kayla: I think you even said that, hey, science in the previous episode was the ritual of science, right?

680
01:21:38,168 --> 01:21:49,608
Chris: Right. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Definitely. High percentage of life consumed. So, I guess, what about percentage of afterlife the followers would be? What?

681
01:21:49,664 --> 01:21:52,648
Kayla: I don't know. Us. The people reading is people that he.

682
01:21:52,664 --> 01:21:53,600
Chris: Grips the money from?

683
01:21:53,680 --> 01:22:06,150
Kayla: I think so, but that's the thing, is that I could not figure out, like, how many people have donated to soul phone, how many books he's sold. Like, I don't know, but he has sold enough book. Like, he makes a living off of this.

684
01:22:06,230 --> 01:22:13,342
Chris: Right? So, yeah, I guess percentage of life consumed is, like, indeterminate, since we don't know that much about, like, the people that engage with his product.

685
01:22:13,486 --> 01:22:13,934
Kayla: Right.

686
01:22:14,022 --> 01:22:20,782
Chris: I imagine that it's probably a spectrum. Like, there's probably somebody who's like, oh, yeah, I'll throw $10 at that.

687
01:22:20,886 --> 01:22:21,102
Kayla: Cool.

688
01:22:21,126 --> 01:22:29,402
Chris: If I could talk to Nikola Tesla or, you know, my choices, which are, like, all horrible men throughout history, so.

689
01:22:29,426 --> 01:22:32,338
Kayla: Nikola Tesla. I have no idea. He might have been a nice guy.

690
01:22:32,474 --> 01:22:33,390
Chris: Who knows?

691
01:22:33,730 --> 01:22:35,450
Kayla: We'll find out with soul phone.

692
01:22:35,490 --> 01:22:42,390
Chris: TM, right? Would you like to know which of your favorite historical figures were total douchebags? Well, now you can.

693
01:22:42,730 --> 01:22:46,110
Kayla: With soul phone. Yeah.

694
01:22:46,450 --> 01:22:47,666
Chris: No. No more jingles.

695
01:22:47,698 --> 01:22:49,270
Kayla: Oh, my God. He's really sad.

696
01:22:50,140 --> 01:22:56,228
Chris: Oh, my God. This episode. Oh, geez. Indeterminate.

697
01:22:56,244 --> 01:22:57,012
Kayla: Destroyed me.

698
01:22:57,116 --> 01:23:03,412
Chris: Indeterminate. Percentage of life consumed. Anti factuality. Just through the goddamn roof.

699
01:23:03,516 --> 01:23:04,724
Kayla: All I have to say up into.

700
01:23:04,772 --> 01:23:06,440
Chris: Heaven is soul phone.

701
01:23:08,060 --> 01:23:10,996
Kayla: I'm sorry. I'm sorry that we're making fun of this so hard.

702
01:23:11,068 --> 01:23:13,508
Chris: It's hard not to. It's called soul phone.

703
01:23:13,564 --> 01:23:14,268
Kayla: I know.

704
01:23:14,404 --> 01:23:22,690
Chris: Like, at least give it, like, a pseudo scientific sounding name, like Star Trek would, you know, like, call it, like. Like he does with the HCTs or what are they called?

705
01:23:22,730 --> 01:23:23,570
Kayla: HCPCs?

706
01:23:23,610 --> 01:23:24,466
Chris: HPCs.

707
01:23:24,538 --> 01:23:26,906
Kayla: Hypothesized post material collaborators.

708
01:23:27,018 --> 01:23:44,230
Chris: Right. That. That at least sounds scientific. So antifactuality. You even talked about closed logical system happening. We talked a lot about motivated reasoning. Those are the two things we talk about a lot with that criteria, just in case we need to justify it, which I don't think we do. Is it niche?

709
01:23:45,126 --> 01:23:46,046
Kayla: I don't know how to answer this.

710
01:23:46,078 --> 01:24:16,350
Chris: I'm gonna say yes. Like, I. I think it's niche. I think there's definitely a large percentage of society that thinks about, believes interacts with beliefs in the afterlife. I don't know if a large percentage of society thinks that it has to be through a medium, or you can attach electrodes to a medium and have it be proven and have a phone to call them on Skype.

711
01:24:16,430 --> 01:24:19,254
Kayla: I wish I knew how much money cell phone has raised dead Skype.

712
01:24:19,342 --> 01:24:21,862
Chris: I know. Okay. Did you look for that?

713
01:24:21,926 --> 01:24:22,430
Kayla: Yeah.

714
01:24:22,550 --> 01:24:31,734
Chris: It's such a. Such a bummer. So I'm gonna say niche for this. Even though afterlife in general, belief in afterlife is not niche, this is.

715
01:24:31,822 --> 01:24:36,558
Kayla: I don't think. Doctor Gary Schwartze. I don't know. I don't know. I agree with you. Yeah, I agree with you.

716
01:24:36,654 --> 01:24:53,982
Chris: And then expected harm, I feel like I'm gonna come down sort of like, percentage of life consumed, because I don't know how. Actually, it's what you were just saying, like, not knowing how much money they've raised. Like, if this is like, bleeding people dry, the way that other cults can, like the amways of the world.

717
01:24:54,166 --> 01:25:02,724
Kayla: I think that as much as I really dislike this entire topic, I don't think it's a cult. I think he.

718
01:25:02,772 --> 01:25:04,548
Chris: Oh, whoa. What about expected harm? Hold on.

719
01:25:04,644 --> 01:25:51,810
Kayla: I was agreeing with you. I don't think that it's. I don't think I can say that it's, like, super high or I can say it's super low. I think it's the spectrum. And I just think overall, I think that this particular gentleman is probably a grifter. I think. I think there's a lot of people that work in this arena, and there's probably a spectrum of true believers to grifters. But I don't know if I can say that Doctor Gary Schwartz and soul phone and afterlife science is a cult. I think if I knew more about the people that consume his products and the people that interact with his products, I could have a better answer, but it's really difficult to find that kind of information. So I hate it. And I want to say it's a cult. I don't know if it is.

720
01:25:52,150 --> 01:25:55,750
Kayla: I think it's a bad. I think it's a bad thing. I think it's a bad thing.

721
01:25:55,870 --> 01:25:58,702
Chris: First of all, it's my turn to judge. Okay? So I don't care what you think.

722
01:25:58,766 --> 01:26:03,734
Kayla: We all get to judge. Also, this is my podcast. You don't exist.

723
01:26:03,862 --> 01:26:51,254
Chris: Oh, that's right. That's right. This is solipsism tonight. With just me to expected harm. I think it's the same thing. It's hard to say because we don't know that much about the followers. I think it's pretty much what you were just saying. The four criteria that were not indeterminate were all pretty heavily cult. However, if this turned out to be something that, like, didn't really affect people that much, and they weren't being harmed and dumping a ton of money and spending a lot of their life, then I think I would say, like, ultra weird. Definitely grifty, but probably not a cult. Like, I don't think you can have a cult if you're not, like, actively harming cultists.

724
01:26:51,382 --> 01:26:52,102
Kayla: Right.

725
01:26:52,286 --> 01:26:55,198
Chris: Maybe we could call it, like, a benign cult versus a.

726
01:26:55,334 --> 01:26:57,390
Kayla: No, I think it's a destructive thing.

727
01:26:57,430 --> 01:27:05,110
Chris: A destructive weird. Oh, is it like a matrix? So there's, like, benign cult, destructive cult, benign weird, destructive weird.

728
01:27:05,150 --> 01:27:07,982
Kayla: I don't even know if it's a weird. I think it's a third thing. I think it's a bad.

729
01:27:08,046 --> 01:27:09,534
Chris: No, I think it's destructive weird.

730
01:27:09,582 --> 01:27:14,084
Kayla: I think it's a destructive bad. I don't even think it's a weird.

731
01:27:14,132 --> 01:27:16,516
Chris: I think, Kayla, this isn't cult or weird or bad.

732
01:27:16,588 --> 01:27:17,932
Kayla: Well, I'm adding it.

733
01:27:18,116 --> 01:27:24,756
Chris: You can add that in your own little universe, but in this universe, where we have to have a destructive weird collaboration of realities.

734
01:27:24,868 --> 01:27:25,960
Kayla: Destructive weird.

735
01:27:26,820 --> 01:27:40,558
Chris: All right, next time on benign cult or destructive weird. Yeah. Okay, so just. Just tie it up, I guess. It's just weird but destructive.

736
01:27:40,614 --> 01:27:43,530
Kayla: There you go. Doctor Schwartz. You're just weird.

737
01:27:43,910 --> 01:28:10,462
Chris: But you're very weird. Is that. That's a consolation? I don't know if you've heard this, but your product is called soul phone. That's. That's weird as fuck, dude. I'm sorry. And, like, even if it. Oh, God. If you were selling, like, I don't know, like, blood chalices or something, that was, like, really just sort of, like, spiritual. Oh, and you have to do some meth, but, like, you're talking about, like, skyping with dead people.

738
01:28:10,566 --> 01:28:12,270
Kayla: Yeah. And.

739
01:28:12,350 --> 01:28:13,374
Chris: And I don't know, man.

740
01:28:13,422 --> 01:28:17,406
Kayla: And Nikola Tesla's helping you do it, right?

741
01:28:17,478 --> 01:28:24,078
Chris: Right. And a whole list of luminaries for the low price of 1999. You can figure out who that is in his next book.

742
01:28:24,134 --> 01:28:25,238
Kayla: I want to read the book.

743
01:28:25,374 --> 01:28:27,670
Chris: Let's buy it. We can expense it to the show.

744
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:29,014
Kayla: I don't want to give them money.

745
01:28:29,142 --> 01:28:31,134
Chris: Mmm. We should steal it.

746
01:28:31,262 --> 01:28:33,694
Kayla: I'd steal it if bookstores were still open.

747
01:28:33,742 --> 01:28:35,598
Chris: We don't condone stealing.

748
01:28:35,734 --> 01:28:36,650
Kayla: I do.

749
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:40,870
Chris: Oh, actually, he's. He's stealing. So actually, in this case, I do condone it.

750
01:28:40,910 --> 01:28:44,250
Kayla: He stole that rich dad's idea.

751
01:28:46,630 --> 01:28:48,798
Chris: Oh, man. That was,

752
01:28:48,934 --> 01:28:51,446
Kayla: I never want to do another topic ever again.

753
01:28:51,638 --> 01:28:54,998
Chris: This is the last episode of cult or just weird.

754
01:28:55,134 --> 01:28:58,222
Kayla: This is what you get when you make me do two topics in a row.

755
01:28:58,326 --> 01:29:02,744
Chris: I didn't. You made you do two topics. I did two topics. So then you had to do two topics.

756
01:29:02,792 --> 01:29:03,528
Kayla: Yeah, I know.

757
01:29:03,664 --> 01:29:05,144
Chris: So you made yourself.

758
01:29:05,232 --> 01:29:10,696
Kayla: I'm so glad that we can talk about soul phone now. That's all I'm ever going to talk about for the rest of my life.

759
01:29:10,808 --> 01:29:13,056
Chris: Soul phone. Jesus.

760
01:29:13,208 --> 01:29:14,016
Kayla: All right.

761
01:29:14,168 --> 01:29:19,000
Chris: I don't even. Yeah, I don't even have anything, like, funny to say. Just soul phone.

762
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,776
Kayla: Soul phone. Thanks for listening.

763
01:29:21,888 --> 01:29:24,536
Chris: Yeah, thanks for going on this journey with us.

764
01:29:24,728 --> 01:29:29,312
Kayla: Go to yourworldoftext.com culturejustweird for a palate cleanser.

765
01:29:29,496 --> 01:29:36,480
Chris: Yeah. Especially if you're from a foreign country, like Iceland. That's so cool. Or actually, we had some tulpas check in here.

766
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:37,296
Kayla: Thanks. Tulpas.

767
01:29:37,368 --> 01:29:40,900
Chris: Which is like so rad that, like, we have tulpas still listening to our show.

768
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:50,128
Kayla: What I wouldn't give to be talking about tulpas right now instead of fucking Doctor Schwartz. Well, you tulpas are just like a.

769
01:29:50,144 --> 01:29:55,170
Chris: Pale blue, that one in season one. Sorry, tulpas.

770
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:58,718
Kayla: And actually you've done three episodes on tulpas now.

771
01:29:58,734 --> 01:30:01,918
Chris: We had the interview and you had two in episode one where you talked about them.

772
01:30:01,974 --> 01:30:06,478
Kayla: Tulpas and the line are definitely some of the most healing episodes.

773
01:30:06,654 --> 01:30:07,930
Chris: What about Cicada?

774
01:30:08,670 --> 01:30:15,158
Kayla: Cicada is great. I don't know if it's like healing, especially because it's so like. And we don't know where they are.

775
01:30:15,294 --> 01:30:17,230
Chris: What about creativity? That was a breath of fresh air.

776
01:30:17,270 --> 01:30:26,146
Kayla: That was a stinky poop. And I hate it almost as much as I hate. No, I think I probably hate creativity worse than doctor Schwartz, but.

777
01:30:26,218 --> 01:30:28,590
Chris: Oh, yeah, creativity is definitely the worst one we've done.

778
01:30:29,210 --> 01:30:31,298
Kayla: I think if it's not even close.

779
01:30:31,354 --> 01:30:36,122
Chris: I'm fine that we did that. I think if I were to run into another group like that, I would.

780
01:30:36,146 --> 01:30:37,010
Kayla: Be like, steer clear.

781
01:30:37,090 --> 01:30:38,506
Chris: I don't know. Do I need to do this again?

782
01:30:38,578 --> 01:30:42,610
Kayla: No, we're good. Okay, well, thanks for listening.

783
01:30:42,690 --> 01:30:44,594
Chris: Yeah, thanks for watching. Tune in for two weeks journey with.

784
01:30:44,602 --> 01:30:49,424
Kayla: Us to not have to hear about doctor Schwartz ever again. Or maybe we'll call you on the cell phone.

785
01:30:49,472 --> 01:30:53,232
Chris: Yeah, well, hopefully not because that means either us or our listeners are dead.

786
01:30:53,296 --> 01:30:55,672
Kayla: Yeah, but if you have a cell phone, who the fuck cares?

787
01:30:55,736 --> 01:31:03,440
Chris: Yeah, that's a good point. Cool. Well, then I think the next step for us is to figure out how to gain listeners in the afterlife.

788
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:04,232
Kayla: Yeah.

789
01:31:04,416 --> 01:31:27,902
Chris: So whether you're here on earth or in one of the various afterlife's, like, share and subscribe, go follow us on Twitter, go to our world of tech, rate us on iTunes, or what is it called now? Apple podcasts. Pardon me. And I hope that you guys have a great rest of your week or weekend whenever you're listening to this.

790
01:31:28,006 --> 01:31:28,766
Kayla: I'm Kayla.

791
01:31:28,838 --> 01:31:34,410
Chris: And I'm Chris. And this has been cult or just weird or cake.