S1E20 - The Culties (CoJW season 1 recap)

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Kayla: Now we're recording, so you can do your testes. Testes. One, two, three.

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Chris: Usually I sing.

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Kayla: Yeah, you do. Well, we're recording, so let's do the episode that I didn't have to prep for now.

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Chris: You prepped for it. We both prepped for it. This took some prep. And actually, the, like, the whole season is prep for this episode.

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Kayla: So you're saying words that should go into the episode now?

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Chris: I feel like. So. Okay, so as many times as I've had listened to the way that you. And actually also I edit the episodes, we always start with something like, are we recording now? Is it now?

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Kayla: Well, that's just, like, what, radiolab?

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Chris: I know. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying, like. So my assumption is basically at this point that, like, as soon as we're recording that it's fair game.

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Kayla: Right?

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Chris: Okay, hold on. Let's reset. Welcome to cult. Or just weird.

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Kayla: I'm Chris.

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Chris: And I'm also Chris.

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Kayla: Oh, that was supposedly funny.

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Chris: I thought that was funnier, that one.

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Kayla: You like twisted the twist.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Kayla: I'm Kayla, by the way.

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Chris: Oh, yeah. Really?

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Kayla: Huh.

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Chris: Oh, man. I'm sure everybody was super confused.

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Kayla: We were all very confused about it.

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Chris: Yeah, well, it's cleared up.

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Kayla: I want to be the first one to say I'm gonna beat you in saying, welcome to our 20th episode of Culture.

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Chris: Just weird number. Bente.

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Kayla: Good job.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Kayla: Chris is bilingual.

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Chris: Thanks.

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Kayla: He's not. Don't let him fool you, Bente.

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Chris: Supreme. Del taco.

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Kayla: Get out. And this is not just our 20th episode. This is also our season one finale. Our season final, which we didn't even close.

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Chris: We didn't even plan that it was the 20th episode. It just happened that way. And I can't even tell you, like, how much that gives my, like, oddly satisfying brain satisfaction.

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Kayla: It's just like, it. You know what it's like? It's like when the dvd logo hits the corner. Exactly. That's what this is. This episode.

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Chris: Or that TikTok where that guy has that vacuum cleaner and it just fits right under his bookshelf just perfectly. Mmm. So good.

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Kayla: Yeah.

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Chris: Yeah, like that.

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Kayla: So this episode is about perfection, really?

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Chris: Yeah.

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Kayla: That perfect feeling.

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Chris: We are perfect.

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Kayla: Do you wanna kinda explain what we're doing with this episode? We're doing something a little different this week.

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Chris: Yeah. So we're doing a clips show where we pretend like there's. We have some sort of pretense for, like, you know, remembering stuff, and then we just play clips. Right?

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Kayla: Yeah.

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Chris: Isn't that.

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Kayla: Do you remember the Seinfeld clip shows? They wouldn't even do that. It was literally just. It would be like, jerry. And he was, like, putting on a jacket, and he'd go, oh, hi. Welcome to the Seinfeld hundredth episode.

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Chris: No.

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Kayla: Yes. It's horrible. It's literally him talking to the audience and being like. And we like to talk about family. And they'll go to, like, a whole bunch of clips of, like, not even his mom yelling at him.

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Chris: That sounds like something that, like, people are like, what are we gonna do for the clip show? And Larry David was probably just like, let's just have Jerry introduce it and play some clips. Yeah, no, we need it to be, like, a frame of some kind. Eh.

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Kayla: People are there for the clips. They're not there for this frame story.

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Chris: Holy shit.

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Kayla: Yeah, that's what it is. So we're doing slightly more work than that.

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Chris: Oh, so it's not clips. So, yes, I'll introduce what this is. For our 20th and season finale episode, we're doing the culties. Is that. Is that what they play at the oscars? Right.

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Kayla: Yeah.

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Chris: Why don't we. Oh, can we get some Oscar music and play it, like, right now? That's what we should do. Let's. I mean, like, splice it in, though, not. Okay. You're just gonna play it. So welcome to the culties, the first annual gala extravaganza. Walking down the red carpet, we have. Oh, look at that. Is that.

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Kayla: We're probably not allowed to. Is that Charles Manson?

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Chris: Is that Jay Z Knight there? Oh, I love. What is she wearing? Is she wearing Gucci teal?

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Kayla: Swan is draped in purple, and her aura is a wonderful azure color. We can't play this music.

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Chris: Why not? Who gives a shit?

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Kayla: This is the. This is, like, fair use, Kayla. This is original Oscars Academy of Horror.

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Chris: Music fair motherfucking news. Come at me, bro.

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Kayla: All right. Welcome to the culties.

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Chris: Oh, is it. Is that John from stepping out of that limo? Oh, he looks gorgeous.

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Kayla: John from would not be cut dead in a limo. Are you kidding me?

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Chris: John from no longer alive.

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Kayla: Jon from would drive himself with powered solely, actually.

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Chris: That's a good point. Right? Oh, boy.

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Kayla: He would definitely drive a dodge.

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Chris: So anyway, welcome to the culties, in which we basically just talk about the season, right? But with a framework of. We have a bunch of categories, and per the usual cult or just weird format, Kayla and I have kept our individual categories that we want to rank the cults from the season and kept them secret from each other.

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Kayla: We're giving our episodes awards from us?

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Chris: Yes. No, no. Hold up, hold up.

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Kayla: Yes.

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Chris: No, we're not giving the episodes awards, okay? We're giving awards to the topics, to the people. Like, we'll send teal a little, you know, a little trophy thing.

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Kayla: I'm not sending nothing to teal.

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Chris: What would our trophy be like? It wouldn't be. Obviously it wouldn't be, you know, a gold mister Oscar.

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Kayla: I think it would be the w from our logo. Like a gold version.

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Chris: Like a gold w with the I?

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Kayla: Yeah.

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Chris: So it would just be. Wouldn't that be the weirdies, then? Should these be the weirdies?

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Kayla: I guess it could be the c. Then it just looks like Coco Chanel.

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Chris: Maybe it should be just the whole thing. I don't know. We'll work on it. We'll work on it because we have to get a bunch of these cranking. We're about to give them out. Why is it. No, no, that's not true.

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Kayla: You brought her up.

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Chris: All right, who goes first?

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Kayla: Before we jump into our culties, I think we should just do. I'm gonna just do a quick reminder, a quick recap of all of the incredible topics were able to cover this year. In order.

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Chris: Yes.

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Kayla: So we started the year off with best friends.

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Chris: Yes, as best friends, we started the year. What was the topic?

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Kayla: I'm not doing this.

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Chris: Well, I'm sorry, but at the oscars, they start.

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Kayla: I'm not bantering.

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Chris: They start with stand up.

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Kayla: Yeah. And it's dumb and bad.

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Chris: Yeah, it's Billy Crystal, isn't it? Still, when's the last time he hosted? Like twelve years ago?

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Kayla: Well, last year. I don't know. I don't watch the oscars. So we started the year covering best friends animal sanctuary. And then the next episode you talked about Romtha and her school of Enlightenment. Then we talked about the city of Irvine. Then we talked about the game Star Citizen, which I'm giving you that for Christmas. Five. Fifth.

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Chris: No, you're not. Cause I don't.

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Kayla: Oh, he doesn't exist. Yeah, I'm getting you nothing for Christmas. Then our fifth topic was the aforementioned teal swan.

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Chris: Solid, solid episode.

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Kayla: Then the one after that was the aforementioned Jon from cargo cults. Then we had our massive. Was it a two part episode or was it just a huge episode of 3301 Cicada?

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Chris: I think it was just one, like, nine hour hardcore history length episode.

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Kayla: Then we talked about Mary Kay. Then we talked about the rest of the.

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Chris: Oh, yes, mlms. There will be more mlms to come in the future. And that was the episode where we had our very first interview on the show. And we two of them.

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Kayla: Oh, yeah, we did.

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Chris: We had miss Nancy Carlson and Tracy Conan.

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Kayla: Then we talked about the restaurant loving hut run by supreme master Ching Hai. Then we talked about.

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Chris: I get to eat for that one.

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Kayla: So that was the best. Then we talked about your favorite topic. You know what it is?

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Chris: Why is this my favorite topic?

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Kayla: World Church of the creator.

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Chris: Oh, because it was horrible.

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Kayla: Horrible. Worst topic. I'm sad. We did.

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Chris: But then we talked about nice stuff.

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Kayla: Remember we did talk about nice stuff in that episode. It was nice.

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Chris: That was nice.

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Kayla: Then we did a definite two parter where we talked about tulpas.

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Chris: Yep. Yep.

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Kayla: That was long after that was insurance.

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Chris: Fascinating.

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Kayla: When you talked about Woodman.

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Chris: Wow, our frickin podcast is boring.

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Kayla: Then the next one was spirit Halloween. So it was just about the retail apocalypse.

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Chris: So we talked about racists, insurance, business.

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Kayla: Practices, best business practices. And then DNA sequencing epigenetics with MTA. Jafar. Mt. Jafar.

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Chris: Mt Jafar. Okay. Is how you pronounce it according to Ben lynch.

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Kayla: We had fun.

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Chris: And that was when we had our second interview on the show.

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Kayla: Yep.

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Chris: Doctor David Gorski, who was an excellent and great interview person. What do you call him? Interviewee.

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Kayla: Interviewee. Expert. Expert witness.

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Chris: Expert witness.

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Kayla: So we had. We covered 14 topics this year, which is pretty good.

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Chris: That's a lot.

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Kayla: Yeah.

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Chris: Just jamming those ideas down your ear holes. You're welcome.

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Kayla: Let's start giving these awards.

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Chris: I mean, since you just did the whole list of episode topics. Yeah, I guess I could kick us off if you would like. Okay.

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Kayla: Actually, can I go? Because I want to make sure.

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Chris: Oh, my God. I literally just asked.

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Kayla: I want to do this on, and I worry that you will have it. I don't want you to take it from me.

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Chris: That's why we did a whole bunch is because we assume. I'm guarantee that's gonna happen with some of them. Right? That's very selfish of you. Go ahead.

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Kayla: Yeah. Okay. So for our first cultie of the evening, I would like to know which cult would you most like to join?

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Chris: Oh my God. That is definite. Not only oh my God. Not only is that on my list, that was my number one in my stack ranks. That literally would have been the first thing I said.

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Kayla: Well, I'm glad that I first.

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Chris: Oh, God, we're gonna have all the same shit.

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Kayla: That's fine. So the culture for this category, I'm presenting it not as which cult or just weird would you want to join? It's. Which thing have we deemed a cult? Would you most want to join?

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Chris: Oh, really?

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Kayla: Yes.

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Chris: No, it can't be any topic.

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Kayla: No.

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Chris: What?

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Kayla: That can be a different one. This is cult because which cult or just weird do you want to join? Like you're gonna say, like, I just want to be friends with the tulpas. Like, that's boring.

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Chris: Okay. So it's probably creativity. By the way, I'm gonna write down our answers just so we. We have them recorded throughout all time.

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Kayla: Thank you.

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Chris: Yeah. Okay, so if you had to join.

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Kayla: A cult, which one would it be?

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Chris: I'm actually gonna one up you here and I'm gonna say, most like to join. And least like to join.

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Kayla: Okay.

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Chris: Although actually, maybe that's super easy because.

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Kayla: The one that's creativity. Creativity is absolutely the least we want to join.

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Chris: Oh, shit. So here's the thing I don't remember is what our.

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Kayla: What we call things.

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Chris: What we call things.

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Kayla: Well, it's fine. Maybe it should just be which topic. Which topic do you most want to join?

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Chris: We should record what we do.

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Kayla: Yeah, we should.

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Chris: But, like, we already record, so I.

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Kayla: Guess write it down.

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Chris: Write it down.

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Kayla: Yeah.

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Chris: I feel like Star Citizen is a strong candidate, which is why I asked that, because I don't remember whether we call them a cult or I think we didn't call them a cult.

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Kayla: Right.

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Chris: So that would have been strong. I think tulpas would have been strong if it was a cult. I think we determined that cargo cults weren't actually cults.

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Kayla: Right. We were split on 3301.

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Chris: Oh, were split on that one. I mean, that seems like a good one because that's like a fun puzzle.

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Kayla: Right. I mean, I think that for me it's 3301. And then the second is either best friends or loving hut. But I think 3301 is.

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Chris: But it's like your joint. Like, for those, it feels like you, like, I want to eat at loving hut and I want to go volunteer again at best friends, but I'm not sure I want to, like, join the cult.

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Kayla: I want to worship Satan and the devil.

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Chris: Oh, right. I guess they are pretty rad relationship, but they're done with that stuff now. So I guess.

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Kayla: So they say. So they front facingly, say allegedly. I don't believe it. And then with loving hut, like, oh, so you own a restaurant and do yoga and be a vegan. Like, that's. I want that anyway.

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Chris: That's actually if I joined their cult, I don't think I'd be able to eat meat anymore. So I guess I'm gonna go with best friends.

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Kayla: All right.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Kayla: Congratulations. Best friends in 3301, you each win a culty.

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Chris: Yeah. Cause. I don't know. Cause best friends, like, yeah, they have some weird shit going on, but then you just get to like pet dogs and cats and like live in the beautiful Utah wilderness.

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Kayla: Right? Right.

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Chris: Ain't nothing wrong with that. Okay, so what if we did least like to join but we discounted creativity?

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Kayla: Well, then it's like, mmm, shit, then it's interesting, right?

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Chris: Is it teal? Are you sure?

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Kayla: No.

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Chris: Are you sure it's not Romtha shit? Actually it's probably teal.

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Kayla: No, I think it's. I think it's MTG far for me.

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Chris: Really?

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Kayla: I think I would. I think. I almost think that's more immoral just.

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Chris: Because of how widespread or what? Cause like, I don't know, man. Teal is like possibly good at getting.

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Kayla: People to kill themselves, but she's also. We've been presented with evidence that she also provides a service for people who are in crisis and then can utilize her techniques to not.

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Chris: Whereas like we've also had. There's. I read accounts of people that defend Ben lynch and say, like, helped me with my medical issue, blah, blah.

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Kayla: Yeah, but they're wrong.

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Chris: I mean, maybe so are the people that say that about teal for sure.

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Kayla: Maybe they were some reason. If you're presenting yourself. Because she doesn't present. She says, like, I'm a medical whatever. She's like a fucking kook. She's not presenting herself as Doctor fake ass doctor Ben lynch. Like, she's not calling herself Doctor Swan.

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Chris: So she's like, she's being super forthcoming and not saying anything that's not true. Like, I have access to all human knowledge.

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Kayla: No, that's not all. I. But like, it's.

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Chris: I'm just saying she's giving the.

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Kayla: She's not, she's not. Yes, yes. Here's why. We've talked so many times about how the most dangerous woo is the woo that is like the most on the knife's edge and Mt. Jafar is way more than they said.

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Chris: That's fair. But what I'm. I think what I'm contesting though is that I think she is still putting on a false mantle of authority. Sure, for sure. But she says she has magic. She says she has access to. It doesn't matter if she says she's a doctor or not. She says she's better than a doctor. She says she's.

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Kayla: And that's fine.

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Chris: Access to all of the knowledge of all human experience of all time. And if you go to a doctor, you're probably just gonna get.

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Kayla: And that still feels less immoral to me than somebody being like, then. Then somebody being a fool fucking leech in an established scientific field. Like, if you are calling yourself Doctor and you're not a doctor and you're like, trying to prop yourself up as, like, as utilizing the same language as the people, you're saying you're better than that to me, feels different than what Teal's doing. If you're saying I'm a doctor, I'm Doctor Ben lynch and you're not a.

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Chris: Doctor, you have to have different answers on this one too. So yours is.

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Kayla: I think I would rather at least teal is like, magic exists. Doctor Ben lynch is just like, butting up against epigenetics or not. Sorry. Butting up against eugenics.

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Chris: I mean, there is something that's shitty about, like, bastardizing science. That's something that both he and Jay Z Knight are guilty of. And that's pretty shitty.

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Kayla: Maybe she's the. Maybe she's more immoral because she's, like, killed her husband.

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Chris: Yeah, but actually, wait, what about. I was gonna say MLM, but the only, like, real MLM we did other than just the, you know, the primer was Mary Kay. Mary Kay doesn't seem that bad compared to Mt. Jafar and teal. But if it was like, amway, though, maybe. I don't know if. What if it was NXivm?

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Kayla: Okay, well, that's its own thing. I think that. I think that it's a very close three way tie between Romthatiel and Ben lynch. But I think for me, I think Romtha does beat them both.

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Chris: You think so?

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Kayla: I think Romtha does beat them both. No, but partly because of, like, I've had the most direct experience with that.

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Chris: Oh, sure.

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Kayla: Like, I experienced Ramtha, like, literally coming into my life and fucking shit up and like. And it was the most minor thing. Just like, oh, being in a college.

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Chris: Class and like, okay, but you don't think that. That Rhonda Wimmer was like, would totally be down with all this MTV shit? I'm sure she totally be dead.

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Kayla: She's probably.

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Chris: She would have. That's the whole thing is that it's like, now she can say like, oh, it's science. It's epigenetics. You can totally control mind over matter and make your water crystals happy or whatever.

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Kayla: But if I'm trying to pick the one I would least like to join, I think it's gonna end up being Ramtha with Mt. Jafar and teal swan. A close second.

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Chris: Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick with teal, but it is pretty close amongst those three. You're right. Okay, so first cult he goes to most like to join for Kayla, 3301. Least is Mt. Jafar for Chris is best friends. And teal swans. Cult.

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Kayla: Those were not the. Those are two completely different culties. What are you saying?

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Chris: Okay, fine. The first two culties then. But it's the two sides of the same culty.

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Kayla: Oh, gotcha.

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Chris: Two sides of the same, least and most. Right. Whatever.

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Kayla: Right.

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Chris: Okay. For our next culty, the question is who is the charismatic leader that you would most and also least. So we're gonna do another.

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Kayla: All of mine are most and least.

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Chris: Too, that you would most and least like to have dinner with.

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Kayla: Okay, so for. And it can be any. Anyone.

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Chris: Anyone that we've talked to. Talked about.

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Kayla: Talked about.

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Chris: We haven't talked to any of them, sadly. That would be freaking awesome if we could get any of them on the show.

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Kayla: I think it's Donald Bren for most.

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Chris: Or least.

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Kayla: I think most for most. Yeah. Cause he's such a secret. He's such, like a Heidi secret. And because since we're watching succession right now, I'm just assuming that every billionaire is, like, really shakespearean cool ass.

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Chris: Yeah, I'm sure everything is that dramatic in real life. Yeah.

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Kayla: It's Donald Bren.

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Chris: Donald Bren. Why? And you're not even Donald Bren.

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Kayla: If, as a refresher, Donald Bren is the gentleman who owns the Irvine company, which owns the city of Irvine. And he's a very secretive billionaire. He's, like, the most. He's the wealthiest real estate developer in the country, right?

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Chris: Yes.

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Kayla: He's definitely up there.

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Chris: Oh, I think he is for sure. He's clearly.

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Kayla: And he's just very out of the public eye, out of the public spotlight. And so that, to me, is like, I want to have dinner with you. I don't know what's going on.

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Chris: This one is really tough for me because there's a lot of, like, really fascinating characters. Like Chris Roberts would be a really interesting person.

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Kayla: I think I would just be so annoyed by him. I think he.

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Chris: I think you'd be annoyed by a lot of these folks.

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Kayla: Teal, I can't do because I'd be too worried about getting sucked in. I'm not see, I think.

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Chris: But Teal's on my, like, it's. I really. It's gonna be hard for me to pick teal. Teal's up there because I think she would be an interesting person to talk to and I'm less worried about.

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Kayla: Right. You're less worried about getting sucked in.

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Chris: You almost did get sucked in already.

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Kayla: So Jay Z Knight.

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Chris: Jay z knight would love to have dinner with Jay z Knight. Even though she's awful.

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Kayla: I don't think I could stomach it. I don't think I could stomach it.

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Chris: She killed her husband and she's like, hyper racist now.

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Kayla: Yeah, I couldn't stomach it, actually.

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Chris: She would probably be, like, super intolerable. She'd probably be, like, talking to the manager about her burger being not cooked right and stuff.

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Kayla: That's why, like, I wouldn't want to have dinner with the remaster Shanghai because I think this should be really, I think Supreme High would be really boring.

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Chris: Yeah. Jay Z would also be super, like, full of herself too. Like, she wouldn't even want to talk.

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Kayla: You wouldn't know if you're talking to Jay Z Knight, if you're talking to Romtha, if you're talking to Joan or whatever her name is. Very upsetting. And Doctor Ben Lynch. I definitely don't want to have dinner with him. Cause I don't care.

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Chris: What about Joseph Cullen? I guess he's dead.

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Kayla: No. Well, I guess he's least. He's least.

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Chris: No. Why is he least? Dude, his life was insane.

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Kayla: He like, oh, okay. I thought Joseph Cullen was the creativity guy.

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Chris: No, that's the sore thumb here. Like, everything we say from now on in this episode is not counting creativity.

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Kayla: White supremacist.

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Chris: No. Geez. No. Joe Cullen. Joseph Cullen Root, the founder of both Woodman of America and Woodman life.

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Kayla: No, I don't. He probably is extremely sexist and probably a racist.

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Chris: He'd have, like. No, well, he's okay. Yeah. I mean, you know, he's a product of his times.

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Kayla: Yeah. So I don't want to hang out with him.

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Chris: He probably had, like, a nice transatlantic accent going.

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Kayla: No one actually had that. It's a fake thing.

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Chris: That was never that. People didn't talk like that in real life ever.

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Kayla: No, it was a movie thing.

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Chris: Yeah, but didn't. I thought that, like, then bled into.

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Kayla: I think that anybody who had a transatlantic accent, like, was putting it on.

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Chris: I think that's. I think you're exhibiting some trans denialism here.

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Kayla: It's not a funny joke.

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Chris: I think that it is. Anyway, okay, so maybe not Joe. Colin Ru. I don't know. I think he'd be super interesting. I don't know.

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Kayla: I'm saying he's not on my list. He can be on your list. That's fine.

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Chris: They're basically all on my list because they're all fascinating. But maybe Jon Frum is my answer because he's like, mythical. And then if I'm, you know, utilizing the magic genie power of you can have dinner with anyone. I want to see who the genie plucks out of history for me to talk to.

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Kayla: Like, that's a really good answer.

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Chris: Who is that? Yeah, so I'm gonna go with Jon frumental.

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Kayla: I'm sticking with Don Brand, even though that's definitely the wrong answer now that you.

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Chris: Well, maybe not because it might just be like, oh, here it is. It's this american gi. And he'll just be like, hey, I was in the Pacific war.

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Kayla: It's still fascinating.

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Chris: I know, but I already know a bunch about that. I'm just saying, like, you know, I listen to hardcore history. They're talking about the Pacific.

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Kayla: You wouldn't want to talk to a person who actually was there.

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Chris: Okay, no fair. Plus, if he's the progenitor drawn from, then he's definitely got something interesting to say.

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Kayla: Right? So who's your so drawn from? For you, Donald Brennan. For me, who's your least?

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Chris: My least again, discounting. Discounting the races, discounting creativity again. I mean, for me, least has to be like, most boring because, like, for me it's not like, oh, I really don't like teal.

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Kayla: Well, then it's probably Ben lynch. He's probably the most boring.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Kayla: Do you remember his fucking about me?

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Chris: It was like, pretty dull.

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Kayla: Ten years after I was born, I turned ten. Finally reached my height of six five. Like, if that's what you have to say about yourself, I don't want to.

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Chris: Have k for most.

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Kayla: Could be her.

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Chris: No, it's not as good as John from. Okay.

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Kayla: I think my least is Jay Z.

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Chris: Your least is Jay Z.

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Kayla: Really? It's between Jay Z and the Star Citizen guy.

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Chris: I hate just because you just like, she's despicable.

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Kayla: She's despicable. I just. I don't. I. The thought of sharing air with her makes me. It, like, makes my cells quench. It makes just a thought. Exactly.

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Chris: A single thought and I become nauseated.

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Kayla: I don't think I could do it. I think I. I think I'd want to fucking hit her. Like, sorry.

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Chris: For those of you who haven't seen. What the bleep? There's a. You might have mentioned this on episode two, but is it how it ends.

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Kayla: Or how it starts?

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Chris: No, it's just. It's in the middle of it, I'm sure. I think so. But anyway, they interview her several times. I believe she's presented as Romtha.

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Kayla: She's presenting as Romtha when she says that.

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Chris: And she says with just a thought, a man gets an erection.

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Kayla: Single thought.

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Chris: A single thought. And it's, I guess the illustration that.

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Kayla: Like, the way your thoughts changes reality. Cause, you know, physiology isn't a thing.

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Chris: Right? And also, like, what? Why. Why boners, man? Why is that the thing? Like, not like just a thought. You can control how you breathe instead of like being automatic. Breath. No, single thought. Single thought. Boner time.

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Kayla: Yep.

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Chris: Yeah, we know where your mind is.

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Kayla: Shocking. God, no. I could not have dinner with her. No. Least.

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Chris: Yeah, she's intolerable. Okay, so my least, I think, you know, I think honestly, it's spirit Halloween. Oh, wait, we didn't say have a.

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Kayla: Charismatic leader for them.

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Chris: And they're not a co. No, it was their founder. It was the business founder.

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Kayla: What was his name? I forget. Joseph Marver. Joseph Marver is the guy who founded Spirit Halloween.

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Chris: Got it. Yeah. So Joseph Marvor. Nothing against Joseph Marver, but like, you know, we already have like an interesting billionaire to have dinner with on the list. And you're not as interesting as Donald Bren. Sorry. So I don't know. Like I. It's. I think it's like close between him and Ben lynch because they're both kind of. They seem both very. Just. Milk toast.

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Kayla: Don't call them milk toast. They might listen. Joseph Marvin also. Okay. Joseph Marver. No, Joseph Marwar didn't do anything wrong.

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Chris: Worst thing we've said on the show.

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Kayla: He's a nice man. There's nothing wrong he did. He's fine.

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Chris: Yeah. I'm not saying he's bad. He built a business that people love.

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Kayla: He invented an entire style of business that is great.

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Chris: I'm just not sure he'd be super interesting to have dinner with. I don't know.

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Kayla: I think that Mt. Jafar would be way less interesting. He would sit down and he'd be like, hello. In 1988, I turned ten. In 1998, I turned 20 and reached my final height of six'five.

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Chris: Also, make sure you're eating enough spinach. Thank you. Okay, fine, fine. You've convinced me. It's Ben lynch.

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Kayla: There we go.

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Chris: Fine.

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Kayla: Hell yeah. All right, next topic.

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Chris: Next category.

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Kayla: Here's one for you. Doesn't have a, doesn't have.

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Chris: Do we have envelopes we can hand to people on the stage when they.

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Kayla: Come, when best friends comes to accept their culti.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Kayla: When the city of Irvine, I'm assuming.

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Chris: Jay Z and Ben lynch are on their way right now to get their least want to have dinner with us award.

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Kayla: Don't think it would.

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Chris: Maybe we can have dinner with them to present them the award.

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Kayla: I don't think it would be good for us if either of them were on their way here. Well, so for this one, there's no duality here. It's pretty straightforward. What for you was the hardest episode?

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Chris: I'm assuming again, we are discounting creativity.

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Kayla: No, if that's it. Was creativity harder than mTHFr because you got.

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Chris: Well, I guess it kind of depends. Right. I need to think about what you mean by hardest. Some topics. Yeah. So, like, creativity would be hardest in terms of like, ooh, it was hard to see all that gigantic list of Holocaust denialism and, you know, kids word searches with like, racist words. Yeah. So, so that was tough. And then some of the topics were just like a lot of work.

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Kayla: Right.

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Chris: Like, mlms was a lot of work. But I think the product was really good. The, the show, same thing with MTHFr. Like, it was a ton of work and took a while to get all the interview and everything lined up and it was a little disorienting to kind of like, navigate through that. But at the end of the day, I, I really liked that episode and I personally feel a little, maybe better than I did to begin with because now, like, it's sort of like, you know, I've been in the muck and, like, people have helped me figure out how to sort of like, navigate that better. And I think I have, like, a clearer understanding of.

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Chris: Yeah, hey, people that are creative are not necessarily the same types of people that are able to be skeptical or able to stay in those rails of, you know, rational thinking.

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Kayla: Right.

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Chris: And maybe we don't even want it to be that way, honestly.

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Kayla: Right, right.

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Chris: Maybe this is tangent, but one of my favorite books on creativity, they talk, one of the things he talks about is how the creative process, like, you're kind of like wearing different hats and sometimes it's different. People wear different hats. Like, if you're a company.

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Kayla: Right.

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Chris: Or maybe it's just different phases of the project. You need to wear different hats. Hats. But he has like four that he talks about.

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Kayla: You should name the book.

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Chris: Oh, it's called whack on the side of the head.

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Kayla: Yeah, it's a good book.

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Chris: And, and just for more reference, I got that from my reading of Mark Rosewater's articles on, and he's the magic the gathering guy. So got to talk about magic the gathering again on the show.

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Kayla: Well, topic for season two.

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Chris: Yeah, don't worry. We'll eventually mention Disney and Jurassic park here. But anyway, it's called whack on the side of the head. It's really good. The roles he talks about are explorer, artist, judge, and soldier. And so the basic idea is that the explorer, when you're in the explorer role, it's all about like, just like, it's like you're brainstorming time. It's like just any, you know, just looking up ideas. It's. It's like you're brainstorming thing from the.

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Kayla: Seeing what sparks your.

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Chris: Yeah, just trying to get the spark going. You're just going through magazines and reading things. You're just trying to generate ideas.

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Kayla: Right.

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Chris: And then the artist phase is, like, where you start, like, articulating a vision. It's, like, very designy. It's very, like, okay, now I'm actually, like, making the thing. I'm actually writing. I'm actually painting. I'm actually coding the game. Whatever. And then the judge phase is sort of like, now I'm looking at what was made and saying, like, you know, this should go, this should stay quality on. This isn't up to par. We need to redo that again. And the thing is, by, like, by separating all these things out, you make it easier to do each thing without having another thing interfere.

366
00:30:33,984 --> 00:30:34,736
Kayla: Right, right.

367
00:30:34,848 --> 00:31:20,070
Chris: So if you're in the artist phase, it can be, it's like, basically interference. If you're, like, trying to judge too much what you're doing or, you know, whatever. Or in the case of a larger organization, that's part of why QA is separated from design. It's not just to save time. It's also because you want your developer to be more about, okay, I'm going to make stuff and be creative and whatever, and then somebody else's job is to be the quality assurance to check that stuff. And then obviously you have to send it back and whatever for bugs. But the point is you separate those out. And then soldier is sort of like, I've done my brainstorming. I built a thing, I checked it for quality, and now I'm gonna go, like, fight for it in the market, basically.

368
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:53,952
Chris: And that's like, marketing and whatnot, publishing for a company. Anyway, the reason I bring all that up is tying it all the way back. I think that there's even just people that are better at one of those things than another of those things. So somebody that's winning a Nobel prize, they may be a really good artist, or maybe they're good explorers and artists, right. They can synthesize a lot of different ideas together and articulate a vision and then, you know, discover something or create something, but they might not be the best judges.

369
00:31:54,096 --> 00:31:55,024
Kayla: Right, right.

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00:31:55,072 --> 00:32:15,604
Chris: And so then somebody else that's a better judge. So that's. So by thinking about it in those sort of, like, separate terms, it. It sort of helps me think about, like, okay, it's less distressing to think of somebody winning a Nobel Prize as later being a quack, because that's not what their brain is necessarily geared to do.

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00:32:15,692 --> 00:32:16,276
Kayla: Right.

372
00:32:16,428 --> 00:32:20,884
Chris: In any case, your question for me was what was the hardest episode?

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00:32:20,932 --> 00:32:21,560
Kayla: Yes.

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00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:52,310
Chris: If I'm including editing, it's probably the MLM episodes, because that was really tough editing. But I don't think I should. I think that I'm gonna say empty Jafar, just because even though it ended, even though now I feel better about everything and I'm, like, more stable about whatever, it was still a lot of work, and it was a lot of work to get the interview secured, and it was a lot of work to do all that research. And I talked to so many different people. It was definitely the most, like, extensive. I've looked into one of our topics.

375
00:32:52,390 --> 00:32:53,410
Kayla: Right, right.

376
00:32:53,790 --> 00:32:57,806
Chris: So that's. That's my long winded answer to your very short question.

377
00:32:57,918 --> 00:33:01,190
Kayla: Yeah, that was a long answer. Mine's 3301.

378
00:33:02,650 --> 00:33:04,034
Chris: Why 3301?

379
00:33:04,162 --> 00:33:12,162
Kayla: Because you remember, that was the one where I was, like, flipping out. Because I was like, this is too hard. It's too big.

380
00:33:12,266 --> 00:33:13,178
Chris: Oh. Because there's too much.

381
00:33:13,274 --> 00:33:15,234
Kayla: I. Compared to measuring the coastline.

382
00:33:15,362 --> 00:33:16,430
Chris: Oh, right.

383
00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:36,084
Kayla: The problem with 3301 is that it's very difficult to explain in a meaningful way without, like, going down a series of rabbit holes. Because you can say, like, oh, 3301. It's like a group, a mysterious group that kind of runs these online, you know, digital scavenger hunts.

384
00:33:36,212 --> 00:33:36,524
Chris: Right.

385
00:33:36,572 --> 00:34:02,230
Kayla: And that does not accurately paint the picture of what 301 is. But then if you paint, you have to keep. It's like a fractal. You keep zooming in and zooming in, and you feel like you're not getting any closer to the end. You're not getting any closer to, like, the starting point because it's just like, okay, well, I can explain why do you think through the two, but then I have to explain, like, what steganography is, and then to explain steganography, I have to, like, you have to keep explaining things.

386
00:34:02,310 --> 00:34:07,570
Chris: Why do you think 3301 was more that way than other topics that you've done?

387
00:34:08,110 --> 00:34:16,262
Kayla: Because other topics that I've done haven't been so, like, Internet. Like, I think it's really bad at being, like, Internet. And, like, computational is probably not the.

388
00:34:16,286 --> 00:34:19,159
Chris: Right word, but, like, I mean, teal's on the Internet.

389
00:34:19,279 --> 00:35:08,790
Kayla: Teal is on the Internet, but it's really easy to go. I mean, okay, I can explain who teal is and what she does in a more accurate way without really digging into the details of, like, what the Akashic records are. Like, you don't need to understand what the Akashic records are in order to, like, fully understand, to have a more full understanding of what teal is. But I think with 3301, it's a difficult to explain how. It's difficult to communicate how fucking cool the topic is without giving necessary context. Like, I think so a lot of domain knowledge context. Yeah. And, like, part of why it's difficult is because it's specifically, like, they're specifically trying to weed people out and these other groups are the opposite of that.

390
00:35:08,830 --> 00:35:14,096
Kayla: Like, yeah, Teal wants to weed out people that aren't gonna be her followers, but she wants to cast a wide enough.

391
00:35:14,168 --> 00:35:16,072
Chris: Oh, she was casting a wide net. Yeah.

392
00:35:16,136 --> 00:35:17,312
Kayla: That they're not.

393
00:35:17,376 --> 00:35:17,880
Chris: She was working.

394
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,096
Kayla: The algos are trying to, because, like, these people are trying to make money and they're trying to grow a following.

395
00:35:23,208 --> 00:35:23,912
Chris: Right.

396
00:35:24,096 --> 00:35:30,248
Kayla: They are trying to be accessible, whereas 3301 is trying to be inaccessible.

397
00:35:30,344 --> 00:35:30,720
Chris: Right.

398
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,040
Kayla: Trying very hard to be inaccessible.

399
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:39,194
Chris: And then you come along with your podcast and try to make it more accessible for all these rubes tried, and.

400
00:35:39,202 --> 00:35:40,082
Kayla: It was very hard.

401
00:35:40,186 --> 00:35:58,170
Chris: But, I mean, I do remember that about that episode. Is that to really appreciate a lot of the step by step narrative of 3301? I remember each time we had to stop and go like, okay, here's what PGP is, right? Okay, here's what. What was that image? I don't even remember what the image hiding outguess.

402
00:35:58,210 --> 00:35:59,202
Kayla: Yeah. Steganography.

403
00:35:59,266 --> 00:36:05,720
Chris: Yeah, steganography. Yeah. So, yeah, like, I had to appreciate what that is to understand. So, yeah, there's a lot of just, like.

404
00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:36,338
Kayla: And it was still, like, very surface y. We could have spent, like, we could have spent an entire hour on, like, each step of every single one of their puzzles we really could have. And so I think that, for me, that was the most difficult. The only one that, like, really compared was the Tulpas episode, and that was simply because of, like, trying to synthesize so many individual experiences. Like, I was so lucky with that episode that so many people from the Tulpas read it, wanted to talk and wanted to share their experiences with me. And again, like, I'm so thankful for that.

405
00:36:36,354 --> 00:36:38,434
Chris: And, like, I hope some of them are still listening.

406
00:36:38,482 --> 00:36:49,602
Kayla: Me too. But that was. There was difficulty in synthesizing that and trying to, like, distill it because I wanted. I wanted to share everyone's story, and I couldn't without it being, you know, like, a 15 hours episode.

407
00:36:49,786 --> 00:36:51,430
Chris: Right. Bonus content.

408
00:36:51,730 --> 00:37:07,098
Kayla: God, seriously? Oh, no. We did. Yeah. If you want to. If you want to check out everyone, every single person that spoke to me, I put everything that was said into a document that's available on our Patreon. So if you're interested in learning more about individual topple experiences, then you have.

409
00:37:07,114 --> 00:37:08,618
Chris: To give us money.

410
00:37:08,674 --> 00:37:09,634
Kayla: Give us money.

411
00:37:09,762 --> 00:37:13,170
Chris: You have to give us money to read things that other people said.

412
00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:13,938
Kayla: Yeah.

413
00:37:14,114 --> 00:37:16,754
Chris: Because that's how content aggregation works.

414
00:37:16,802 --> 00:37:19,426
Kayla: Is a cult. I will die.

415
00:37:19,498 --> 00:37:26,576
Chris: It's 2019. I know. I know. Full disclosure, that was almost the. The season finale.

416
00:37:26,608 --> 00:37:27,568
Kayla: Why wasn't it?

417
00:37:27,704 --> 00:37:32,784
Chris: Well, because we liked this idea better, number one. And number two, we also have, like, some stuff coming up in season two.

418
00:37:32,832 --> 00:37:36,680
Kayla: That'S, like, I think the overall theme of season two might be is capitalism.

419
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:41,896
Chris: Occult, maybe? I have a pretty wide variety of things planned.

420
00:37:41,968 --> 00:37:44,344
Kayla: Okay. I'll figure out how to tie them all back together.

421
00:37:44,432 --> 00:37:54,688
Chris: Several of them. One of them is, like, pretty clearly a. It's not capitalism is a cult. It's the cult of capitalism. Right, right. We'll get to that.

422
00:37:54,744 --> 00:38:09,860
Kayla: Anyway, season two, we almost had our finale. Instead of being the culties, it was going to be a discussion of whether or not capitalism is a cult. But then we realized we have far more topics to cover in season two before we can answer that question thoroughly. So stay tuned.

423
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:17,240
Chris: Yay. More business stuff. Okay, I think it's on to next topic.

424
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:17,740
Kayla: Yeah.

425
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:25,796
Chris: Our next. Next category. Next culty. So far, we have said, which cult would I most and least like to join?

426
00:38:25,868 --> 00:38:26,532
Kayla: Right.

427
00:38:26,716 --> 00:38:44,040
Chris: Which charismatic leader I would most and least like to have dinner with? What was the hardest topic to. To research or to do? So my next category is which cult story is the most screenplay adaptable?

428
00:38:44,620 --> 00:38:56,500
Kayla: Oh, geez. It's probably Mary Kay, because I don't know how there isn't a Mary Kay movie already.

429
00:38:56,580 --> 00:38:56,868
Chris: Yeah.

430
00:38:56,924 --> 00:39:10,820
Kayla: Jennifer Lawrence stars as Mary Kay trying to start her business. How is that not a Christmas release blockbuster film with maybe it is a pretty young blonde actress ingenue being Mary Kay.

431
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,176
Chris: Or, like, why didn't Dolly Parton play this role already?

432
00:39:14,368 --> 00:39:17,832
Kayla: Cause Dolly Parton doesn't need to. Dolly Parton's better than Mary Kay. Sorry.

433
00:39:17,976 --> 00:39:26,816
Chris: Okay. But she would be perfect for the role. Yeah, well, a lot of actors are better than the people they play. Like, I'm just saying.

434
00:39:26,848 --> 00:39:34,544
Kayla: Don't. Don't. You cannot drag down Dolly Parton. Even in iota. She's a stellar queen. She's a goddess.

435
00:39:34,672 --> 00:39:41,810
Chris: How am I dragging her down by saying she would be good to play a, like, top ten american business person?

436
00:39:43,310 --> 00:39:44,382
Kayla: Too good for it.

437
00:39:44,486 --> 00:39:58,270
Chris: She'd be great for this role. You shut up. Oh, all right. Nevermind. What about 2002 drama comedy hell on the battle of Mary Kay?

438
00:39:58,350 --> 00:39:58,734
Kayla: No.

439
00:39:58,822 --> 00:40:09,664
Chris: And also, why haven't we seen this one woman's courage to dream, making millions like her successful starling, Parker Posey and Shirley Maclaine.

440
00:40:09,712 --> 00:40:10,736
Kayla: Okay. Actually, that sounds great.

441
00:40:10,808 --> 00:40:11,800
Chris: And Shannon Doherty.

442
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,860
Kayla: What? Those are real people.

443
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,760
Chris: So I guess there is a movie. So literally, that is the most screenplay adaptable since it's already been done.

444
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,680
Kayla: Oh, I want Kristen Dunst to do it. I want Kristen Dunst to be Mary Kay.

445
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,184
Chris: Well, you just want that because of becoming a God in central Florida.

446
00:40:26,232 --> 00:40:31,384
Kayla: So I think that in terms of what I could see Hollywood actually making a movie about.

447
00:40:31,472 --> 00:40:31,848
Chris: Yeah.

448
00:40:31,904 --> 00:40:32,756
Kayla: Mary Kaye.

449
00:40:32,778 --> 00:40:33,024
Chris: Yeah.

450
00:40:33,072 --> 00:40:39,672
Kayla: What I would want to see a movie be made about, it might be teal.

451
00:40:39,856 --> 00:40:40,608
Chris: Interesting.

452
00:40:40,704 --> 00:40:41,664
Kayla: Could also be Irvine.

453
00:40:41,712 --> 00:40:43,808
Chris: I don't know. I don't want teal to be.

454
00:40:43,984 --> 00:40:53,288
Kayla: I'm saying in terms of, like, movie made about her. No, I don't want teal to have a movie made about her, but a movie inspired by her fucked up, insane stories.

455
00:40:53,424 --> 00:40:58,592
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. What? All right, so pick one then, because you got to pick one.

456
00:40:58,616 --> 00:41:00,120
Kayla: It's Mary Kay. Mary Kay for me.

457
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,558
Chris: Okay. You know, I'm gonna go. For me. I'm gonna go back to Jon Fromm on this one.

458
00:41:04,734 --> 00:41:05,822
Kayla: That's a good one.

459
00:41:05,966 --> 00:41:29,866
Chris: And I think it would make, like, a cool, sort of, like, magical realism thing where there was, like a world War two soldier that actually had some magic powers, but then also utilized, like, real historical situations and really did the things that the cult of Jon Frum says that he did. Like Horace Gamp helping sort of, but almost more magical, even magic.

460
00:41:29,898 --> 00:41:30,722
Kayla: Forrest gum.

461
00:41:30,826 --> 00:41:36,562
Chris: We're sort of. It's like the age of magical realism now anyway. Right? Isn't that like. It's, like, pretty freaking popular right now.

462
00:41:36,626 --> 00:41:37,154
Kayla: Is it?

463
00:41:37,242 --> 00:41:44,842
Chris: I don't know. It seems like it. Okay, I believe you. Cool. Anyway, I think that would be a cool story.

464
00:41:45,026 --> 00:41:45,322
Kayla: Yeah.

465
00:41:45,346 --> 00:41:52,914
Chris: If anybody wants to talk to me about optioning a script, I am available, so just let me know.

466
00:41:53,042 --> 00:41:56,290
Kayla: I'm sure they'll go to you. And not like, somebody who's, like, written a book about Jon.

467
00:41:56,370 --> 00:41:57,676
Chris: Right. Or anything.

468
00:41:57,858 --> 00:41:59,464
Kayla: Lives in a place where there have.

469
00:41:59,472 --> 00:42:02,864
Chris: Done a podcast about Jon from belief. Whatever, man.

470
00:42:02,952 --> 00:42:04,208
Kayla: I'm sure they'll go straight to you.

471
00:42:04,304 --> 00:42:08,008
Chris: I'm just saying, I am the expert here.

472
00:42:08,144 --> 00:42:08,928
Kayla: All right, so.

473
00:42:08,944 --> 00:42:13,616
Chris: Yeah. So that's my answer for most screenplay. Adaptable. I would like to see a movie about that.

474
00:42:13,688 --> 00:42:15,592
Kayla: Okay. Are you ready for your next topic?

475
00:42:15,656 --> 00:42:17,448
Chris: I am ready. Ready as I'll ever be.

476
00:42:17,544 --> 00:42:26,096
Kayla: Topic you've changed your opinion most about. Are there any. Here are the ones that I've changed my opinion on a bit. Star Citizen.

477
00:42:26,248 --> 00:42:32,104
Chris: Okay, wait, so was your initial opinion about Star Citizen that it was, like, fricking terrible or.

478
00:42:32,192 --> 00:42:34,712
Kayla: No, like, I was super blown away by it.

479
00:42:34,776 --> 00:42:35,528
Chris: Oh, yeah.

480
00:42:35,584 --> 00:42:44,360
Kayla: And just since then, I've realized that, like, what they're trying to do, they're not the only people trying to do it and. Or achieving it.

481
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,040
Chris: Right.

482
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:52,340
Kayla: There's a lot of really cool things happening in video games, and maybe it just. Maybe I was a little too enthusiastic about.

483
00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:55,350
Chris: Oh, so you've changed your. Because.

484
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:57,942
Kayla: Oh, wait, I'm less impressed by it now.

485
00:42:58,046 --> 00:43:01,326
Chris: Oh, I thought you were saying you changed the other way.

486
00:43:01,358 --> 00:43:01,926
Kayla: No, I'm.

487
00:43:01,958 --> 00:43:10,998
Chris: Well, because I feel like then it's a bit of a rollercoaster. Because I think we started out by being a little like, whoa, that's crazy. That's so much money. Although all those people have been false promises.

488
00:43:11,094 --> 00:43:14,446
Kayla: I know, but my opinion on the gameplay was like, holy shit.

489
00:43:14,518 --> 00:43:24,228
Chris: Right. But then we saw the gameplay and were like, oh, that's incredible. Yeah. And now you're saying you're less impressed? Yes. Is that because you've played some games that have made you go, like me.

490
00:43:24,364 --> 00:43:56,694
Kayla: Less that and more? Just being able to go online and read a little bit more about Star Citizen myself and being on the Star Citizen Reddit and just hearing people be like, okay, yeah, it's cool. But also these games are doing that, too. And I can't give any specifics right now, but just kind of learning that what Star Citizen is trying to do while the scope is singular, I think they're the only ones trying to be a game. That's literally everything. The things that I was very much impressed by, like the non loading screens and the Fidelity, that's not as unique to them as I think I thought.

491
00:43:56,822 --> 00:43:58,262
Chris: So yours is Star Citizens.

492
00:43:58,286 --> 00:43:59,174
Kayla: I'm saying that's one of my.

493
00:43:59,222 --> 00:44:00,118
Chris: That's one of them.

494
00:44:00,254 --> 00:44:08,382
Kayla: So the ones that I have definitely changed my opinion about is that one loving hut. I think I have a little bit of a different opinion on now, maybe.

495
00:44:08,526 --> 00:44:16,158
Chris: And tulpas again, now is this after having done it? Cause you said it was a cult, seemed bad. And you're saying now you're.

496
00:44:16,214 --> 00:44:20,094
Kayla: This is the topic you've changed your opinion most about since the episode was published.

497
00:44:20,142 --> 00:44:22,062
Chris: Since the episode. Got it, got it. Got it.

498
00:44:22,086 --> 00:44:23,118
Kayla: Since the episode was published.

499
00:44:23,174 --> 00:44:32,222
Chris: Because I was gonna say tulpas. Because before you did tulpas, I was like, yeah. Oh, you know, that's people just giving themselves the, you know, the crazies.

500
00:44:32,286 --> 00:44:32,846
Kayla: Right.

501
00:44:32,998 --> 00:44:39,438
Chris: Whatever. But after having done the episode, obviously now it seems a lot more. A lot healthier.

502
00:44:39,534 --> 00:44:39,910
Kayla: Right.

503
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:53,594
Chris: It seems a lot. Like, for at least. I mean, obviously, you know, there were some cases where it seemed like the, you know, the tulpum answers weren't as pleased with it, but for the most part, it seemed like it was something either neutral to beneficial.

504
00:44:53,682 --> 00:44:54,338
Kayla: Right.

505
00:44:54,514 --> 00:45:14,258
Chris: And certainly like having an imaginary friend like, you made a strong case for that. But since this is since the episode. The episode, not during the episode, that may change my answer. So you're saying. So, star citizen, what changed your. What have you learned since we did our episode about Supreme Master Qinghaide?

506
00:45:14,304 --> 00:45:23,270
Kayla: I think I've just had more time to think about the ethics of going and eating at a leving hut. And I think that when we ended the episode, I was still like, I don't know. And I think the reason.

507
00:45:23,310 --> 00:45:25,438
Chris: We don't think. We were saying we shouldn't go, were we?

508
00:45:25,494 --> 00:45:26,998
Kayla: I thought it was kind of on the edge.

509
00:45:27,054 --> 00:45:28,806
Chris: No, were like, maybe it's not a good idea.

510
00:45:28,878 --> 00:45:33,814
Kayla: Oh. Cause then I guess my opinion didn't change. I think my opinion now is actually it's unethical.

511
00:45:33,942 --> 00:45:34,478
Chris: Yeah.

512
00:45:34,574 --> 00:45:37,198
Kayla: And also, that doesn't mean I'm never gonna eat there again.

513
00:45:37,334 --> 00:45:38,446
Chris: Yeah. They had really good food.

514
00:45:38,478 --> 00:45:47,956
Kayla: I do lots of unethical stuff. I try to limit the amount of unethical things I do. And then also, I think the reality of being a human being in the world is you are going to do unethical things.

515
00:45:48,108 --> 00:45:51,524
Chris: You're on the ver. Just say it. Just say capitalism. Just say it.

516
00:45:51,692 --> 00:45:54,260
Kayla: Well, I mean, yeah, there's no ethical consumerism under capitalism.

517
00:45:54,300 --> 00:46:07,956
Chris: Okay. Thank you. I'm just. I knew you had it under the surface there. Just barely. What is it about loving Hutt since then that's made you veer slightly more towards. It's not ethical. Anything specific or.

518
00:46:08,068 --> 00:46:10,388
Kayla: No, I think. Just being honest with myself.

519
00:46:10,484 --> 00:46:10,932
Chris: Right.

520
00:46:11,036 --> 00:46:21,752
Kayla: I think just. Plus there's some good experience, honestly, having some distance from how good the restaurant experience was and being like, okay, but there's lots of great restaurant experiences and maybe.

521
00:46:21,816 --> 00:46:24,752
Chris: And great vegetarian restaurant experiences, especially in LA.

522
00:46:24,856 --> 00:46:26,744
Kayla: Right. I don't need to go to lovinghut.

523
00:46:26,872 --> 00:46:27,312
Chris: Yeah.

524
00:46:27,376 --> 00:46:27,960
Kayla: So.

525
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:33,020
Chris: Okay. And then the third one was, I think, for tulpas.

526
00:46:33,360 --> 00:47:18,940
Kayla: I think something that I may be a little bit guilty of in that episode is not incorporating. I think that the episode, while I. I definitely stand by it and I still believe everything that I said in the episode, I think that the episode's a little biased in that I didn't do enough work on presenting the possible negative aspects of it and how. I do think that there are people in the community that are dealing. That are dealing with severe mental illness or just even mental illness at all, and are not receiving the help that they deserve and partly because of their involvement with the tulpas community. So I think that it's less that my opinion has changed because I still believe everything that we. I still. I truly do stand by the episode and I.

527
00:47:19,060 --> 00:47:29,756
Kayla: Not denying any experience of anyone that talked to me. And also just since then, I do wonder if I could have done more work to present a more balanced version of it.

528
00:47:29,828 --> 00:48:09,208
Chris: Yeah, I think it's just. It's hard too, with, like, with. With something like that. Wherever it can be such a fine gray line between something that is just natural variation and something that is potentially pathological, something that is harm causing to the individual. It sometimes can actually be really hard to draw that line. I mean, even with something like alcoholism, which seems like really easy to draw that line, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's like, is that person just drinking or is it actually affecting their work? Is it affecting their relationships? Even that is sometimes difficult to draw. So certainly with something like tulpas, where it's imaginary friends. Do you have, of those three, do you have one that you've changed your opinion on?

529
00:48:09,224 --> 00:48:11,968
Kayla: I think I'd give the culture, the cult. He goes to Star Citizen.

530
00:48:12,064 --> 00:48:12,360
Chris: Okay.

531
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,704
Kayla: I think I was a little too.

532
00:48:13,832 --> 00:48:28,308
Chris: Blown away by, come on, man. Like, you walked in the station and you got on the ship and you could have, like, four people manning, like, manning the guns, and you could have a, like a navigator and a copilot.

533
00:48:28,364 --> 00:48:31,596
Kayla: But there was no game. Like, it was just.

534
00:48:31,628 --> 00:48:32,320
Chris: Okay.

535
00:48:33,260 --> 00:48:34,716
Kayla: Pretty art there.

536
00:48:34,828 --> 00:48:37,652
Chris: You. There's no game in Pokemon go, and.

537
00:48:37,676 --> 00:48:42,280
Kayla: That'S a game that's very different than Star Citizen.

538
00:48:42,740 --> 00:48:45,980
Chris: I don't know. I've had this argument with a lot of people. I think they're wrong and dumb.

539
00:48:46,060 --> 00:48:48,000
Kayla: Literally. Star Citizen is not a game.

540
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:53,204
Chris: It's okay. Here we go now, because I've had this argument with people that say Pokemon go is not a game.

541
00:48:53,252 --> 00:48:53,956
Kayla: Okay, that's fine.

542
00:48:53,988 --> 00:49:00,510
Chris: I believe that games can be experiential. Star Citizen right now is a very singular experience. Playing the game.

543
00:49:00,590 --> 00:49:07,382
Kayla: Not a game, though, because they haven't public. They'll say that there's no game. The people who make Star Citizen will say.

544
00:49:07,446 --> 00:49:09,654
Chris: They say it's incomplete and it's coming out in phases.

545
00:49:09,742 --> 00:49:12,330
Kayla: Yes. So there's no game.

546
00:49:13,110 --> 00:49:15,278
Chris: No. I've seen. I've seen it be played.

547
00:49:15,414 --> 00:49:16,086
Kayla: Okay.

548
00:49:16,198 --> 00:49:20,846
Chris: I sat there and watched fine. It's still my interviewee.

549
00:49:20,918 --> 00:49:21,862
Kayla: I've changed my opinion about it.

550
00:49:21,886 --> 00:49:27,264
Chris: Play. Okay. I appreciate that you give that the culty disagree that it's not a game.

551
00:49:27,352 --> 00:49:28,180
Kayla: Got it.

552
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:43,020
Chris: Boy. So this is. Okay. So if I had to change my opinion, let me think. Okay. So it's probably creativity, because since I've done that, I've realized that the other. What was it that the mud race.

553
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,800
Kayla: You know, this isn't going anywhere.

554
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:46,272
Chris: Come on.

555
00:49:46,296 --> 00:49:47,700
Kayla: So you're wasting our time.

556
00:49:49,270 --> 00:50:01,294
Chris: Please. No patreon. At least maybe, actually, I'm editing this one. I can put whatever the fuck I want in here. Okay. Now let me think about it.

557
00:50:01,342 --> 00:50:15,502
Kayla: I also think best friends is actually definitely a contender here because I think that we started off being like, oh, it's a cult. And kind of taking a very cult brush at it. And now it's such child's play compared to some of the things that we've talked about.

558
00:50:15,606 --> 00:50:19,404
Chris: Yeah, I was thinking about best friends for that reason.

559
00:50:19,572 --> 00:50:24,200
Kayla: And, like, because what they are now is they're doing, like, they're doing unequivocal good.

560
00:50:24,540 --> 00:50:49,068
Chris: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Best friends is on the list for me. I keep going back and forth on Mary Kay. Some days I'm like, oh, it's fine. But then some days I'm like, I don't even know if we should have presented it as possibly okay in some circumstances. We gave a pretty, like, balanced opinion in that episode or not. Like I said, some days I'm like, that was good that we did that. And then some days I'm like, I don't know.

561
00:50:49,164 --> 00:50:52,468
Kayla: Right. When you, like, listen to the dream and you hear about, like.

562
00:50:52,524 --> 00:50:52,836
Chris: I know.

563
00:50:52,868 --> 00:50:58,252
Kayla: Or you listen to something about Nexium and you just hear about the way mlms are today, it's just like.

564
00:50:58,396 --> 00:51:03,916
Chris: And, like, maybe Mary Kay isn't as bad as the worst of them, but, like, you know, it's part of the industry.

565
00:51:04,028 --> 00:51:04,516
Kayla: Right.

566
00:51:04,628 --> 00:51:06,308
Chris: And they're not necessarily like.

567
00:51:06,444 --> 00:51:10,440
Kayla: But again, no ethical consumerism.

568
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:20,478
Chris: Right. All right. Yeah. My opinion hasn't really changed on people like Ramtha or teal.

569
00:51:20,574 --> 00:51:20,926
Kayla: Right.

570
00:51:20,998 --> 00:51:30,462
Chris: I think it has to be. I think it has to best friends. Like, honestly, my opinion hasn't changed a lot on a lot of these things appreciably. But maybe it's best friends just from the contrast.

571
00:51:30,566 --> 00:51:30,854
Kayla: Right.

572
00:51:30,902 --> 00:51:40,694
Chris: But by the same token, at the very end of that episode, we said, would you go volunteer again? And were like, oh, yeah, right, of course. So, I mean, that's, you know, that's still the case. I would still totally go back and volunteer.

573
00:51:40,742 --> 00:51:41,046
Kayla: Right.

574
00:51:41,118 --> 00:51:43,582
Chris: And actually, now I'd probably, like, pry a little bit more instead of being.

575
00:51:43,606 --> 00:51:44,770
Kayla: Like, oh, my God.

576
00:51:45,070 --> 00:51:59,982
Chris: Yeah. Like. Cause the founders like to talk to you at lunch. I actually just spoke with somebody that volunteered at best friends a couple days last month, and she said this. I asked her, I was like, did you have lunch there?

577
00:52:00,046 --> 00:52:00,902
Kayla: Oh, my God.

578
00:52:01,046 --> 00:52:18,210
Chris: And we're the founders there. And she was like, oh, my God. Yeah, but she, like, she knew. I forget whether she, like, listened to the episode. No, yeah, I know. We're pretty big. No. I forget whether she had researched ahead of time or whether it was afterwards. But she knew the deal. She knew where they came from.

579
00:52:18,250 --> 00:52:19,042
Kayla: Gotcha.

580
00:52:19,226 --> 00:52:34,586
Chris: But they're still there at lunch saying, hi, I'm one of the founders. But I think. Yeah, I was gonna say if. But I think it's more of a when because I definitely want to go back. When we go back, I'm definitely gonna go to lunch, find one of them, ask them if I can sit with them.

581
00:52:34,658 --> 00:52:35,178
Kayla: Right.

582
00:52:35,314 --> 00:52:41,956
Chris: And be like, hey, what can you tell me about this place? Also, I'm recording you.

583
00:52:42,028 --> 00:52:47,828
Kayla: Well, you may have to do a little bit more work to be able to record somebody than that, but I get what you say.

584
00:52:47,844 --> 00:52:50,332
Chris: I think all you have to do is say, also, I'm recording here.

585
00:52:50,516 --> 00:52:52,220
Kayla: So is it best friends that you give the cult?

586
00:52:52,300 --> 00:53:03,638
Chris: Yeah, it's best friends. I give the call. Ta best friends. But. But it's pretty close because I most of these folks, most of these topics. I feel like I haven't changed my opinion on a whole lot.

587
00:53:03,724 --> 00:53:05,910
Kayla: All right, back to you.

588
00:53:07,050 --> 00:53:11,626
Chris: I'm gonna say this one, and we don't have to do it because I don't know if we'll have a good answer for it.

589
00:53:11,658 --> 00:53:12,250
Kayla: Oh, God.

590
00:53:12,370 --> 00:53:14,310
Chris: Best Jurassic park reference.

591
00:53:14,770 --> 00:53:17,870
Kayla: Shit. I don't know. All of them. All of them.

592
00:53:18,370 --> 00:53:20,178
Chris: The problem is we don't.

593
00:53:20,274 --> 00:53:20,794
Kayla: Oh, I know.

594
00:53:20,842 --> 00:53:22,730
Chris: We don't actually have a clips list.

595
00:53:22,810 --> 00:53:25,354
Kayla: I know which one it is. It was from Mt. Jafar.

596
00:53:25,482 --> 00:53:25,802
Chris: Okay.

597
00:53:25,826 --> 00:53:46,280
Kayla: And when I went dinosaurs, it was probably honestly, that I don't know all of our Jurassic park references. All of my Jurassic park references, there's so many. But the Mt. Jafar Jurassic park reference is probably the most actually relevant because there is so much. It's about genetics.

598
00:53:46,620 --> 00:53:50,340
Chris: That's true. Actually, the whole episode is the answer to that one.

599
00:53:50,380 --> 00:53:53,400
Kayla: Yeah. So I think it's probably that one. Yeah.

600
00:53:54,060 --> 00:53:56,882
Chris: Yeah. I mean, I gotta be honest. Like, I had a. I had this.

601
00:53:56,946 --> 00:53:57,730
Kayla: That was your joke one.

602
00:53:57,770 --> 00:54:07,474
Chris: My category is it was a joke one. And I was like, am I going to go back and listen through all, like, 50 hours of our content and try to find all the Jurassic park references for this?

603
00:54:07,522 --> 00:54:08,114
Kayla: No.

604
00:54:08,282 --> 00:54:09,630
Chris: No, I don't think so.

605
00:54:10,290 --> 00:54:11,034
Kayla: It's fine.

606
00:54:11,122 --> 00:54:41,010
Chris: You know what? This one is an audience question. Hey, audience, what do you think? What's your favorite jurassic park reference we've done in the show? I guess I can move on to an actual one. Let me think of these two, which would be my. This one's a good follow up to, like, changed opinion and also, like, hardest. So what was your favorite topic to research? Like, what was. What was the one that you had your most, like, oohs and ahs and was most. Or was most interesting or whatever?

607
00:54:41,310 --> 00:54:43,526
Kayla: I have loved all of my topics.

608
00:54:43,598 --> 00:54:44,198
Chris: Mm.

609
00:54:44,294 --> 00:54:45,654
Kayla: All of the topics.

610
00:54:45,742 --> 00:54:47,158
Chris: I think I know what you're gonna say on this one.

611
00:54:47,254 --> 00:55:07,962
Kayla: Just literally all of my topics, though, have been. I've been so lucky that I picked such cool topics. Everything was like a really interesting can of worms. Everything was an interesting ball of yarn. Like, from best friends all the way to spirit Halloween in, like, completely different ways. I think it's gonna between 3301 and tulpas. Like.

612
00:55:08,106 --> 00:55:10,114
Chris: Mm. I was gonna say. You would say 3301.

613
00:55:10,122 --> 00:55:16,786
Kayla: 331 is fantastic to research. I'd also already done all of that research already.

614
00:55:16,898 --> 00:55:17,500
Chris: Right.

615
00:55:17,650 --> 00:55:50,530
Kayla: So it was less. Like. It was less about discovering something. Like, I didn't have a process of discovery for that one. It was more taking stuff that I already knew about and, like, figuring out how to communicate it. Whereas with tulpas, I was on such a journey of discovery and getting to connect directly with individuals in that community was very special. So I think that while I, I think my favorite topic is 3301. Like, I could literally talk about cicada 3301 for 150,000 years.

616
00:55:51,110 --> 00:55:51,790
Chris: Literally.

617
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:52,382
Kayla: Literally.

618
00:55:52,446 --> 00:55:52,806
Chris: Wow.

619
00:55:52,878 --> 00:55:59,670
Kayla: I think in terms of like, what was my favorite to research, even though it was really difficult, I think it was tulpas. I think it was the tulpas.

620
00:55:59,790 --> 00:56:10,198
Chris: I think that. Yeah, that makes sense. I would have thought you would have said 3301 or tulpas. So that makes sense. Especially like the journey of discovery and connecting with actual folks.

621
00:56:10,254 --> 00:56:10,806
Kayla: Right.

622
00:56:10,958 --> 00:56:26,182
Chris: You know, for me it's tough because I actually had a really interesting time with a few of them. It's between Jon Frum and Mary Kay. I think for me that's interesting that.

623
00:56:26,206 --> 00:56:28,814
Kayla: John from would even be in the same like, level as Mary Kay.

624
00:56:28,862 --> 00:56:51,098
Chris: Well, just because it was like, I didn't. In terms of, like the level of discovery. Right. In terms of the, like, I knew what cargo cults were. I had no idea that this thing called John from existed. I had no idea that cargo cults, as we sort of have them in popular cultural knowledge, is not really what they are.

625
00:56:51,194 --> 00:56:51,906
Kayla: Right, right.

626
00:56:51,978 --> 00:57:07,484
Chris: So like learning that was a good little brain tickle. You know, it was like, whoa, neat. I had no idea. In the case of MLMS, there was some of that discovery element. Like, I knew they were weird, but I didn't know like how crazy it got.

627
00:57:07,532 --> 00:57:08,140
Kayla: Right, right.

628
00:57:08,260 --> 00:57:37,478
Chris: And certainly like listening to the dream was like a great experience. Discovering just how crazy the world of mlms is during that research. And then also speaking with Misses Carlson and Miss Conan was a really cool experience to getting their, like, you know, firsthand take on a topic that we're doing on our show was. That was really cool. I think in terms of pure volume of interestingness, it's got to go to MLMs and Mary Kay.

629
00:57:37,534 --> 00:57:38,250
Kayla: Yeah.

630
00:57:38,790 --> 00:57:44,286
Chris: Because the john from thing was like a couple fun little tickles, but it was like a smaller topic.

631
00:57:44,358 --> 00:57:44,974
Kayla: Sure.

632
00:57:45,142 --> 00:57:55,756
Chris: In terms of the amount of research, Emily Elms and Mary Kay was a long involved process. So I think I gotta give the culty to favorite research. Mary Kaye.

633
00:57:55,938 --> 00:57:56,780
Kayla: Solid.

634
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,352
Chris: What is our next category?

635
00:57:59,496 --> 00:58:00,184
Kayla: Okay.

636
00:58:00,312 --> 00:58:00,928
Chris: Okay.

637
00:58:01,024 --> 00:58:18,328
Kayla: So my next topic then is, of the topics we have covered this year, which topic would you say is the most? Woo. And before we get into this, should we go ahead and define woo for our audience. Because we've used that word.

638
00:58:18,424 --> 00:58:18,928
Chris: Oh.

639
00:58:19,024 --> 00:58:19,848
Kayla: A lot.

640
00:58:19,944 --> 00:58:22,306
Chris: Oh, yeah. And not everybody knows what that means. Sorry, I.

641
00:58:22,328 --> 00:58:23,054
Kayla: So let's go.

642
00:58:23,102 --> 00:58:28,190
Chris: Sorry, audience that doesn't know. Whoa, are you reading urban dictionary right now?

643
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:34,918
Kayla: Means seek the favor, support, or custom of, or try to gain the love of someone, especially with a view to marriage.

644
00:58:35,014 --> 00:58:38,054
Chris: Right. It's like Romeo and Juliet. That's exactly what we're talking about.

645
00:58:38,102 --> 00:58:40,838
Kayla: Woo. Woo comes from the word.

646
00:58:40,894 --> 00:58:41,934
Chris: That was a joke, everyone.

647
00:58:42,022 --> 00:58:47,992
Kayla: Well, that's probably it. Woo comes from woo. Woo. Like, that's where I first heard the term. Woo was like, woo. Woo.

648
00:58:48,126 --> 00:58:48,596
Chris: Yeah.

649
00:58:48,668 --> 00:59:20,482
Kayla: And according to rational wiki, which is part of my trust network, woo is a term for pseudoscientific explanations that share certain common characteristics, often being too good to be true. Aside from being unscientific, the term is common among skeptical writers. Woo is understood specifically as dressing itself in the trappings of science, but not the substance, while involving unscientific concepts such as anecdotal evidence and sciency sounding words. So woo is like, the wooey topics we've done are Romtha.

650
00:59:20,506 --> 00:59:23,578
Chris: It's new age, it's heal. To me, it's almost synonymous with loving hut.

651
00:59:23,634 --> 00:59:26,466
Kayla: Yeah, it's new age bullshit.

652
00:59:26,618 --> 00:59:27,154
Chris: Yeah.

653
00:59:27,242 --> 00:59:35,258
Kayla: Like woo is homeopathy. Woo is naturopathy. Woo is claiming that chiropractics can fix your teeth situations.

654
00:59:35,314 --> 00:59:50,404
Chris: Yeah, this is a tough one. I guess they've all been tough, but it's between Jay Z and Teal. Ben lynch was, you know, he was a naturopath and peddling pseudoscience for money.

655
00:59:50,492 --> 00:59:50,812
Kayla: Right.

656
00:59:50,876 --> 01:00:03,788
Chris: So that was woo. But like Teal and Jay Z are like maximum woo. I mean, they are just through. They take woo to eleven. I mean, they are way off the scale.

657
01:00:03,844 --> 01:00:04,960
Kayla: What about best friends?

658
01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:10,150
Chris: No, best friends. No, no, they weren't. They weren't. Woo best friends was like religious.

659
01:00:10,310 --> 01:00:14,694
Kayla: What about mlms and the airplane game and that and new thought?

660
01:00:14,822 --> 01:00:22,486
Chris: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it creeps in everywhere, but not, I think, to me, not to the degree that it does with those two women.

661
01:00:22,598 --> 01:00:35,980
Kayla: I love that we haven't even talked about tulpas because like, we're both so of the belief that tulpas are not woo. And I mean, tulpas aren't. They're not. Yes and no, though they're not woo in the same way that, like Teal and Jay Zhdemenhe.

662
01:00:36,130 --> 01:00:38,720
Chris: I think that for some tulpamancers, though, they probably are.

663
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:39,000
Kayla: Yeah.

664
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:46,632
Chris: For some tulpamancers, it's probably a sense of, you know, there's a real magical being living in the physical space in my room.

665
01:00:46,736 --> 01:00:50,088
Kayla: But that seemed to be so, like, not the forefront of the.

666
01:00:50,144 --> 01:01:01,664
Chris: Yeah, you're right. That did seem to be less common, which was, I think, part of what. Part of what drew me to the topic and made me kind of go like, oh, that's. That's not as. That's not as weird and crazy as.

667
01:01:01,712 --> 01:01:02,872
Kayla: Not as blue as I thought.

668
01:01:02,936 --> 01:01:16,660
Chris: Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, adult interviewing the kid, and the kid going, like, you know, the imaginary friend isn't real. Right, right. Like, it's that. Right. It's like, I felt that, like, most tulpamancers understand that the tulpas are real, just not physical.

669
01:01:16,740 --> 01:01:31,420
Kayla: Right. Well, it's. Yeah, it's like, literally, when we looked at the. All the data that they have, like, all the census, I think it was like, the vast majority of people believed that there was, like, a neurological reason for this, that it's not magic, that it's something else going on.

670
01:01:31,540 --> 01:01:36,258
Chris: Right. So I'm gonna give this to teal.

671
01:01:36,444 --> 01:01:41,438
Kayla: More so than Ramtha, I think. More so than the 30,000 year old lemurian night or whatever.

672
01:01:41,614 --> 01:01:50,814
Chris: They're both way up there. Both of their belief systems are extremely prototypical, epitome of new age type thought.

673
01:01:50,902 --> 01:01:51,390
Kayla: Right.

674
01:01:51,510 --> 01:01:55,726
Chris: I like. Honestly, it's. It's basically a tie. Like, they're like, there's.

675
01:01:55,758 --> 01:01:56,454
Kayla: I think you can.

676
01:01:56,502 --> 01:01:57,806
Chris: I'm gonna give it to teal, but.

677
01:01:57,838 --> 01:01:59,862
Kayla: Like, you give it to teal because I'm giving it to Romtha.

678
01:01:59,926 --> 01:02:00,294
Chris: Okay.

679
01:02:00,342 --> 01:02:01,630
Kayla: It's perfect. So they both get it.

680
01:02:01,710 --> 01:02:19,460
Chris: So let's explain why I. You say romp, then I say teal. I think I say teal. It feels like she dips into slightly more things than Jay Z. Like the Akashic records and. And spirit healing and aura. I know Jaycee.

681
01:02:19,620 --> 01:02:23,556
Kayla: Like, literally, she's a channelized quantum physics.

682
01:02:23,628 --> 01:02:31,070
Chris: I know. I know. I'm not saying that. That. Yeah. And that's certainly a woo thing. I'm not saying. That's not like teal.

683
01:02:31,110 --> 01:02:37,894
Kayla: Swan's not. Teal Swan's famous, but she's not getting invited on the Tonight show. No. Johnny Carson is not talking to teal. No, she's not.

684
01:02:37,982 --> 01:02:41,118
Chris: I mean, she's, like, got a bajillion followers or whatever now, though, right?

685
01:02:41,134 --> 01:02:41,950
Kayla: She's not on.

686
01:02:42,030 --> 01:02:43,430
Chris: She has a podcast about her.

687
01:02:43,510 --> 01:03:02,680
Kayla: She's not. But about how she's not good. Not like, literally. Jayz Knight used to go on the Tonight show and go on these late night talk shows to be like, look how cool this person is. Isn't this interesting? Nothing. The podcast being like Teal Swan's dangerous fair.

688
01:03:03,820 --> 01:03:21,724
Chris: Geez, it's like I said, it really could go either way. Cause they're very similar. I don't know. Yeah, I think the Akashic records and also the recovered memories thing, the fact that she has all these false recovered memories about being sewn inside corpses. I don't know. I don't know.

689
01:03:21,812 --> 01:03:25,770
Kayla: Jay Z Knight says that she's a 35,000 year old atlantean warrior.

690
01:03:25,940 --> 01:03:27,238
Chris: First of all. Oh, my God.

691
01:03:27,294 --> 01:03:29,382
Kayla: Okay, she's wrong.

692
01:03:29,566 --> 01:03:31,254
Chris: Lemurian, not atlantean. They were.

693
01:03:31,262 --> 01:03:32,110
Kayla: I think he was atlantean.

694
01:03:32,150 --> 01:03:33,654
Chris: They were at war with the Atlanteans.

695
01:03:33,702 --> 01:03:35,166
Kayla: Kayla, I'm looking this up.

696
01:03:35,198 --> 01:03:36,070
Chris: Yeah, look it up.

697
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:39,726
Kayla: I just want to make sure I don't not believe you. I just want to.

698
01:03:39,798 --> 01:03:42,686
Chris: How do you not know the geopolitics of fake places?

699
01:03:42,798 --> 01:03:59,222
Kayla: Oh, God. Jay z Knight was on Larry King. Yeah, she appeared on us tv shows such as Larry King, MSNBC, the Merv Griffin show, and also in psychology today. Yeah, he did fight the aliens, but it was 35,000. 35,000 years ago, not 30,000.

700
01:03:59,366 --> 01:04:23,664
Chris: Okay, fine. I was only off by a very tiny amount. 5000 years. But yes, they were fighting the Atlanteans because they had to go to war. Probably over some magical disagreement. The aliens maybe made them do it. I don't know. Are we giving the culties to. You're giving it to Jay Z? I'm giving it to teal for this one.

701
01:04:23,712 --> 01:04:26,704
Kayla: Yes. Jay Z knight is the wooiest of woo.

702
01:04:26,872 --> 01:04:32,856
Chris: It's. Yeah, it's. Teal's the wooiest of woo. But they're both. They're both at the pinnacle of woo.

703
01:04:32,888 --> 01:04:34,616
Kayla: Yeah, they're both slightly different flavors.

704
01:04:34,768 --> 01:04:39,904
Chris: Yeah, very slightly. One's like mint chocolate chip and one's like chocolate chip mint.

705
01:04:39,952 --> 01:04:41,736
Kayla: Yeah. Okay, your turn.

706
01:04:41,848 --> 01:04:49,114
Chris: All right, I got another category here. And then you'll do one more and then we'll get on to the finale.

707
01:04:49,202 --> 01:04:49,922
Kayla: Sounds good.

708
01:04:50,026 --> 01:04:59,790
Chris: So here is my penultimate topic. Who is the most business savvy out of our cults and charismatic leaders and whoever?

709
01:05:00,250 --> 01:05:13,736
Kayla: Alright, so I think here we're talking about some topics. Doesn't make sense. Tulpas Creativity 3301 cargo cults. Those don't fit here.

710
01:05:13,848 --> 01:05:17,472
Chris: I don't know. I mean, the cargo cults are getting free stuff, man.

711
01:05:17,656 --> 01:05:18,424
Kayla: I don't know if you.

712
01:05:18,472 --> 01:05:19,800
Chris: Stuff from the cargo.

713
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:56,598
Kayla: I think so then if we're looking at best friends rom the Donald Brunt, Irvine star, citizen guy teal, Mary Kay, Supreme Master Qinghai, the Woodman, spirit Halloween and Ben lynch. Yeah, that is tough. That is very tough. Yeah, I think. I'm gonna say, I think it's a really hard call. I think that it's Joe Marver in spirit Halloween, because all of these people didn't invent, like, a new style of business except for Mary Kay. And even then, she didn't really invent it.

714
01:05:56,734 --> 01:06:00,182
Chris: Right. But I mean, I think you can say that even for Joseph Marvor, right.

715
01:06:00,206 --> 01:06:06,024
Kayla: Joe Marver invented Halloween pop ups. Joe Marver invented the concept of Halloween pop ups.

716
01:06:06,112 --> 01:06:16,328
Chris: And you're saying that she was. She didn't quite invent the multi level marketing style. She, like, the Tupperware, had already done the in home parties and.

717
01:06:16,464 --> 01:06:24,248
Kayla: But incredible business savvy. But then the same thing goes for, like, sorry, but okay, well, obviously Donald Bren has actually. Maybe he has better business savvy.

718
01:06:24,304 --> 01:06:25,340
Chris: He is the richest.

719
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:27,256
Kayla: It's Donald Brown.

720
01:06:27,288 --> 01:06:28,840
Chris: He owns, like, all of the family.

721
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:34,470
Kayla: Most business savvy is Donald Brand. Like. Like, it's Donald. The end.

722
01:06:35,010 --> 01:06:35,790
Chris: Yeah.

723
01:06:36,090 --> 01:06:40,834
Kayla: Ben lynch, obviously is very business savvy. And he's business savvy in the way that, like, Teal and Jay Z Knight are business.

724
01:06:40,922 --> 01:06:49,930
Chris: Right. But teal, like, here's the thing about teal, though, is that teal is like, of all the people that we just listed, she's the one that I think is the most, like, tech business savvy.

725
01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:50,490
Kayla: Oh, for sure.

726
01:06:50,530 --> 01:06:53,390
Chris: Because she's the one, like I said, she's working the algos, right?

727
01:06:53,930 --> 01:06:54,946
Kayla: She's incredibly business.

728
01:06:55,018 --> 01:07:12,920
Chris: She knows how to get search engine optimized for getting eyeballs onto her content. She knows what her niche is. Yeah, she plays to that. She's become very. I mean, she's. She's grown her following. I mean, you remember when were talking about her, like, five years ago and it was nothing, right? And now she has this, like, gigantic empire.

729
01:07:13,540 --> 01:07:14,532
Kayla: I'm saying Donald Bren.

730
01:07:14,556 --> 01:07:17,436
Chris: You're saying Bren? Yeah, just because of the results.

731
01:07:17,508 --> 01:07:31,080
Kayla: I think for me, it goes a kajillion dollars. I think it's Bren. Jomarvere. Teal. Wait, no, I think it's Bren. Jo Marver. Nope, I think it's Bren.

732
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:31,680
Chris: One more try.

733
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:43,968
Kayla: Mary Kay. Joe Marvor. Teal. Romtha, Ben lynch. And then I didn't even. But then I didn't even put number four star citizen, who maybe it's him.

734
01:07:44,024 --> 01:07:48,456
Chris: Because he's raised the most money with anyone for nothing.

735
01:07:48,528 --> 01:07:58,412
Kayla: And he started like a hundred thousand different companies. Like he. He has had the most illustrious business career without really necessarily having that much output.

736
01:07:58,556 --> 01:08:15,594
Chris: Yeah. So for me, I think again, yeah, you can make a strong case for pretty much anyone on the list here. But I got to go, Bren, as well, just for the results. Right. He has just an ungodly amount of money. What was it, like 3 billion or something? How much money is he worth?

737
01:08:15,772 --> 01:08:24,957
Kayla: Donald Bren. Donald Leroy. Bren Leroy. In the year of our Lord 2019, his net worth is $17 billion.

738
01:08:25,094 --> 01:08:27,430
Chris: $17 billion.

739
01:08:27,470 --> 01:08:28,421
Kayla: That's a lot of.

740
01:08:28,566 --> 01:08:29,662
Chris: That's many billions.

741
01:08:29,725 --> 01:08:30,370
Kayla: Yeah.

742
01:08:30,670 --> 01:08:36,930
Chris: I think even if you had 1 billion, you'd be able to like kind of get by. Yeah, but like 17.

743
01:08:37,390 --> 01:08:40,261
Kayla: Yeah, $17 billion. Yeah.

744
01:08:40,286 --> 01:08:46,830
Chris: It's like just fuck. Alright. So I think that pretty clearly puts it in first place.

745
01:08:46,910 --> 01:08:47,453
Kayla: Yeah.

746
01:08:47,582 --> 01:08:59,997
Chris: But I'll also say that some of the things that you said specifically like, because, you know, somebody might become a 17 billionaire because they, you know, got a big old chunk of cash from the daddy.

747
01:09:00,094 --> 01:09:03,358
Kayla: Right. You can be whatever, be gifted billions of dollars.

748
01:09:03,413 --> 01:09:12,375
Chris: Right. But it. From him, it sounded like he kind of started from nothing. More or less. Not nothing. But like he didn't start with a million dollars.

749
01:09:12,487 --> 01:09:13,407
Kayla: Yeah, billions.

750
01:09:13,462 --> 01:09:23,799
Chris: Yeah. He started by just like being good at real estate and then that bit where you said he engineered the takeover of the company and then like sold off a bit and then bought it back later. Or was it.

751
01:09:23,839 --> 01:09:24,711
Kayla: Maybe this is.

752
01:09:24,774 --> 01:09:33,135
Chris: He bought it and then he sold it. Either way, it was like for some absurd differential of multi millions of dollars, he bought back the exact same thing that he had sold.

753
01:09:33,207 --> 01:09:39,837
Kayla: Maybe Donald Brent is the most screenplay adaptable. Like you do like a the founder take up the founder kind of treatment to it.

754
01:09:39,894 --> 01:09:41,569
Chris: Yeah, yeah.

755
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:44,062
Kayla: He's the savviest businessman.

756
01:09:44,166 --> 01:09:44,518
Chris: Yeah.

757
01:09:44,573 --> 01:09:45,318
Kayla: Business person.

758
01:09:45,413 --> 01:09:51,782
Chris: Yeah. But it's. It's pretty telling that there are so many very savvy business people topics that we've covered.

759
01:09:51,805 --> 01:10:04,800
Kayla: We have 14 topics again. And in this conversation it's best friends, Ramtha Irvine star, Citizen, Teal Swan, Mary Kay loving hut Woodman spirit, Halloween and empty Jafar.

760
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:13,168
Chris: Yeah. Like ten out of 14 extremely business savvy. Not just sort of. Yeah, that's something. I feel like we need to unpack a little bit at some point.

761
01:10:13,224 --> 01:10:16,160
Kayla: I wonder if it's because capitalism might be a cult.

762
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,552
Chris: Oh, God. Here. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Fair. You win.

763
01:10:19,616 --> 01:10:24,696
Kayla: I'm just. The signs continuously point to yes. I don't know what you want from me.

764
01:10:24,888 --> 01:10:27,016
Chris: Maybe there's some motivated reasoning here.

765
01:10:27,128 --> 01:10:30,250
Kayla: There's 1000% motivated and I will admit it.

766
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:34,406
Chris: But yeah, that is, that's. Wow, that's nuts. Yeah.

767
01:10:34,518 --> 01:10:37,046
Kayla: So Donald Brennan across the board, 16 billion. Yep.

768
01:10:37,118 --> 01:10:40,598
Chris: I guess you can have a logo. That's weird. If you have that much money.

769
01:10:40,654 --> 01:10:41,030
Kayla: Yep.

770
01:10:41,110 --> 01:10:44,382
Chris: All right, one more category from thou.

771
01:10:44,486 --> 01:10:46,174
Kayla: Yes, I like mine.

772
01:10:46,302 --> 01:10:49,966
Chris: What is your last category before we move on to the finale?

773
01:10:50,158 --> 01:10:52,430
Kayla: What's our most wholesome topic?

774
01:10:52,510 --> 01:10:53,278
Chris: Oh my God.

775
01:10:53,334 --> 01:10:56,234
Kayla: What's the most wholesome thing we've talked about best friends.

776
01:10:56,282 --> 01:10:58,114
Chris: Cuz doggos, tulpas.

777
01:10:58,202 --> 01:11:01,190
Kayla: Cuz of friends. Because of making friends.

778
01:11:01,490 --> 01:11:01,986
Chris: Yeah.

779
01:11:02,058 --> 01:11:08,730
Kayla: Okay. Literally everybody listening. The reply all episode about Tulpas is called making friends and it's just such a good time.

780
01:11:08,770 --> 01:11:12,202
Chris: Oh, I get it. Yeah. Cuz you're making friends.

781
01:11:12,266 --> 01:11:16,970
Kayla: A friend. But also like spirit. Halloween is pretty wholesome with their like spirit of children.

782
01:11:17,130 --> 01:11:19,410
Chris: Oh yeah, they do that. They have the charity. Yep.

783
01:11:19,490 --> 01:11:23,034
Kayla: So they have a charity arm. That was pretty awesome.

784
01:11:23,082 --> 01:11:23,444
Chris: Yeah.

785
01:11:23,522 --> 01:11:25,568
Kayla: I mean, cargo cults is pretty wholesome.

786
01:11:25,624 --> 01:11:26,952
Chris: Mmm. Yeah.

787
01:11:27,016 --> 01:11:29,256
Kayla: 3300 and one's not unwholesome.

788
01:11:29,952 --> 01:11:30,744
Chris: One's mostly wholesome.

789
01:11:30,792 --> 01:11:37,816
Kayla: Pretty wholesome. It's people helping each other solve puzzles on the Internet and like, yeah, like we have a lot of wholesome creativity.

790
01:11:37,848 --> 01:11:38,880
Chris: Had the thing with the kids.

791
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,240
Kayla: Don't, don't.

792
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:59,150
Chris: You know what? If I had to do a damn topic on creativity, if I had to go to that website and I had to do that research, then by God I have earned these jokes. I can make as many jokes about creativity as I want to make on this show. Haha. White supremacists. Ha ha.

793
01:12:00,450 --> 01:12:04,750
Kayla: Okay. Woodman, I think is also a pretty wholesome topic.

794
01:12:05,170 --> 01:12:28,828
Chris: I was actually gonna say they are surprisingly, they were surprisingly wholesome despite the sort of sexism that comes with whatever in the 18 hundreds. But they had a lot of stuff where they were helping people out, helping people accept help from a community and accept insurance when that was still a little bit or maybe a lot bit taboo because of, you know, rugged individualism and whatnot.

795
01:12:28,884 --> 01:12:29,340
Kayla: Right.

796
01:12:29,460 --> 01:12:36,244
Chris: That's pretty wholesome. I mean they helped people like carry on when their loved ones passed away.

797
01:12:36,332 --> 01:12:36,748
Kayla: Right.

798
01:12:36,844 --> 01:12:37,892
Chris: They're still doing that.

799
01:12:37,996 --> 01:12:40,640
Kayla: Well then they're like, we do pranks on each other.

800
01:12:41,020 --> 01:12:51,730
Chris: I know. They're like we have, we ride a goat and make farting noises. Do you want some insurance? Yeah, that's fair. What's your final answer?

801
01:12:51,770 --> 01:12:55,690
Kayla: What's the culture? It's between best friends and tulpas.

802
01:12:55,810 --> 01:12:56,450
Chris: Okay.

803
01:12:56,570 --> 01:12:58,226
Kayla: And I think it's best friends.

804
01:12:58,378 --> 01:13:01,410
Chris: Best friends. Really? Yeah, because, see, when I said best.

805
01:13:01,450 --> 01:13:04,738
Kayla: I guess the topic isn't wholesome because the topic was about the religion, and.

806
01:13:04,754 --> 01:13:09,698
Chris: The religion wasn't a thing. Like, if it's just best friends, a, it's not a cult.

807
01:13:09,794 --> 01:13:10,410
Kayla: Right.

808
01:13:10,570 --> 01:13:14,706
Chris: And b, it's clearly the most wholesome because you're going and rescuing animals.

809
01:13:14,738 --> 01:13:16,500
Kayla: It's tulpas. Then. It's tulpas.

810
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:23,112
Chris: Yeah, that. See, that's why I was. Because I said best friends at first, but then same thing for me. I was like, oh, spirit.

811
01:13:23,136 --> 01:13:24,504
Kayla: Halloween's for sure up there.

812
01:13:24,592 --> 01:13:24,904
Chris: Yeah.

813
01:13:24,952 --> 01:13:33,912
Kayla: It's just I think anything that, like, gets real business related, gets, you know, takes some wholesome points away from it a little bit. Not necess, like, a little bit.

814
01:13:33,936 --> 01:13:35,360
Chris: Yeah, I get it. I get it.

815
01:13:35,440 --> 01:14:24,526
Kayla: But spirit of children obviously isn't incredibly wholesome. But that's only part of the topic. WHereas tulpas as a whole. I just think that I will always be a sucker for people finding community in nice ways because I love the Internet. The Internet has done some incredible work in, like, bringing people together. And then also, unfortunately, people are able to find community in destructive ways on the Internet. Like, there's a lot of people, you know, finding community like that website, like the. Like that I look for creativity, you know, incels, Subreddit and, you know, alt. Right. Like, there's lots of ways for finding community on the Internet to be such an intense negative that I love when people are able, people who are lonely are able to find community with each other on the Internet in, like, constructive, positive ways.

816
01:14:24,598 --> 01:14:28,118
Kayla: And tulpas feels overwhelmingly positive and constructive.

817
01:14:28,254 --> 01:14:42,188
Chris: You make a strong case. Tulpas is close for me, I think I'm gonna go, though, with Jon Frum, which. Yeah, I'm not like, it's not quite wholesome. It's more uplifting.

818
01:14:42,284 --> 01:14:43,140
Kayla: Yeah, I guess. Yeah.

819
01:14:43,180 --> 01:14:48,212
Chris: Because, like, wholesome is, like, saccharine almost. Right. It's like. It's like. It's pure.

820
01:14:48,276 --> 01:14:48,960
Kayla: Yeah.

821
01:14:49,540 --> 01:14:54,852
Chris: Throwing off the yoke of colonialism is. It's not a pure story.

822
01:14:54,996 --> 01:14:55,644
Kayla: Yeah.

823
01:14:55,772 --> 01:15:01,606
Chris: So I don't know. I'm kind of. Kind of. It's more like kind of jamming a round peg into a square hole here. But, like, I.

824
01:15:01,628 --> 01:15:07,666
Kayla: It's more intense than wholesome. It's more positively intense.

825
01:15:07,738 --> 01:15:24,482
Chris: And it's aspirational, too, for an American. We named the episode the Americans because it was. Not only was it about maybe an american GI, but it was also about these folks that identified with the best aspects of the american experiment and ideal.

826
01:15:24,626 --> 01:15:29,436
Kayla: There's been so much negative around that it's nice to have a place where it totally, very positive.

827
01:15:29,548 --> 01:15:37,300
Chris: Totally. So. So that part of it, I think, feels wholesome. Like I said, throwing off the yoke of colonialism is not exactly like, wholesome.

828
01:15:37,340 --> 01:15:39,668
Kayla: It's more badass and fucking cool inspiring.

829
01:15:39,764 --> 01:16:04,308
Chris: There's. There's. Maybe it's just because I'm a boy. Wholesomeness means like, yeah. Righteous violence. Fuck, yeah. But I get, you know, they also weren't like. As I recall, they weren't like, violent in the way they did it. They were just were able to ideologically resist. Utilize. Yeah, ideologically resist and. And utilize this shared community, this shared, like, spiritual, cultural thing to galvanize their community to become independent.

830
01:16:04,364 --> 01:16:04,932
Kayla: Right. Right.

831
01:16:04,996 --> 01:16:07,292
Chris: So that's my answer for wholesome.

832
01:16:07,356 --> 01:16:08,132
Kayla: There you go.

833
01:16:08,276 --> 01:16:15,828
Chris: Culty goes to Jon Frum on the people of Tana and tulpas. And tulpas for you is Jon from a tulpa?

834
01:16:15,924 --> 01:16:23,444
Kayla: Shit, yeah, kind of. I mean, he's a tulpa in the same way that, like, he's, like, he's a community tulpa.

835
01:16:23,612 --> 01:16:24,296
Chris: Totally.

836
01:16:24,428 --> 01:16:27,352
Kayla: Is any sort of mythological and or religious figure.

837
01:16:27,376 --> 01:16:34,544
Chris: A tulpa is Donald Bren, who we have never seen in real life and estates. No, because my secretive tulpa.

838
01:16:34,592 --> 01:16:43,632
Kayla: No, because one of my best friends went to a party at his friend's house and she's Donald Bren's niece. And Donald Bren was there, or so he's seen him.

839
01:16:43,776 --> 01:16:46,520
Chris: Was he just hallucinating a tulpa?

840
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,152
Kayla: He just forced the tulpa.

841
01:16:48,296 --> 01:16:57,308
Chris: Yeah. Are all of the NPC's in Star Citizen tulpas? Is the entire season of culture just weird about tulpas?

842
01:16:57,364 --> 01:16:58,484
Kayla: Are we tulpas?

843
01:16:58,652 --> 01:17:09,212
Chris: Yes. Well, we. Didn't we talk about that? We're like. We're totally like, I am a tulpa of my brains. Like, we construct our identities. We have different identities. We have a different identity this morning than I did yesterday.

844
01:17:09,276 --> 01:17:10,124
Kayla: We are all tulpas.

845
01:17:10,172 --> 01:17:11,364
Chris: We kind of all are tulpas.

846
01:17:11,412 --> 01:17:12,040
Kayla: Yeah.

847
01:17:12,580 --> 01:17:18,044
Chris: All right, so that brings us to the final question.

848
01:17:18,212 --> 01:17:19,804
Kayla: Final question.

849
01:17:19,932 --> 01:17:38,240
Chris: Da da da. So the equivalent of best picture. The cultiest cult and the weirdiest weird. The culty goes to la land. No, wait. Sorry. Moonlight.

850
01:17:39,180 --> 01:17:47,234
Kayla: La land is the cult there and moonlight is the weird or the other way around? I don't know. Cultiest cult and weirdiest weird.

851
01:17:47,332 --> 01:17:47,678
Chris: Yes.

852
01:17:47,734 --> 01:17:59,010
Kayla: It's hard, man. I think that weirdiest weird. It goes to tulpas. Again. Tulpas I think tulpas is the weirdiest weird tulpas is.

853
01:17:59,430 --> 01:18:04,334
Chris: Apologies if any tulpas are listening to this right now. It's hella weird. Yeah, it's hella.

854
01:18:04,462 --> 01:18:07,054
Kayla: We've talked many times on the podcast. Weird is good.

855
01:18:07,182 --> 01:18:10,166
Chris: Weird weird in our opinion. I mean, I guess weird can.

856
01:18:10,238 --> 01:18:10,678
Kayla: Weird can be bad.

857
01:18:10,694 --> 01:18:11,542
Chris: Can be bad.

858
01:18:11,686 --> 01:18:12,894
Kayla: It doesn't have to be bad, but.

859
01:18:12,902 --> 01:18:29,580
Chris: It definitely can be good. And I think in this case, it is good. I think, you know, in a lot of cases, it's good. In a lot of cases, weird is interesting. It's different. It's variety. It's. I don't know, it's. It's something foreign to my experience, which I like.

860
01:18:29,700 --> 01:18:31,360
Kayla: And then for culties. Cult.

861
01:18:33,140 --> 01:18:39,068
Chris: Why telpas? Why. Wait, why are they the weirdiest? Weird is there's just another weird teal dude.

862
01:18:39,204 --> 01:18:41,400
Kayla: Yeah, teal's weird, but teal's a cult.

863
01:18:41,730 --> 01:18:42,590
Chris: Okay.

864
01:18:43,010 --> 01:18:44,698
Kayla: Tulpas wasn't a cult.

865
01:18:44,794 --> 01:18:46,242
Chris: Mmm. Okay, fair.

866
01:18:46,306 --> 01:18:47,250
Kayla: It's a just weird.

867
01:18:47,330 --> 01:18:48,106
Chris: That's fair.

868
01:18:48,258 --> 01:19:08,790
Kayla: And it's people creating sentient consciousness autonomous. Like, even if it's. Even if it's real. Like, yeah, it's. It's the weirdiest weird. As far as culties. Cult. I want to say Mlms. Am I allowed to say Mlmsen?

869
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:11,184
Chris: Why wouldn't you be?

870
01:19:11,312 --> 01:19:13,352
Kayla: Cause the topic was Mary Kay.

871
01:19:13,536 --> 01:19:14,984
Chris: Oh. Oh, I see.

872
01:19:15,152 --> 01:19:18,540
Kayla: But we did also do, like, MLM as a topic.

873
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:20,880
Chris: I think you have to say Mary Kay.

874
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,536
Kayla: I think mlms are the cultiest cults. But then if it's.

875
01:19:23,568 --> 01:19:26,160
Chris: We didn't do a judgment for mlms. We just did a judgment for Mary Kay.

876
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:42,318
Kayla: So then I don't think it's Mary Kay. I think then it goes back to my old pal teal. Teal, not Jay Z. I think teal. I think partly because she's more relevant right now.

877
01:19:42,414 --> 01:19:42,934
Chris: Right.

878
01:19:43,062 --> 01:19:57,534
Kayla: She's like. She's more relevant. She's more up and coming. She's more able to, like, utilize the Internet. Like, Romtha's fucking using dvd's of a movie. Teal's got YouTube beds.

879
01:19:57,662 --> 01:20:05,052
Chris: Right, right. Teal is like the tech savvy, like millennial to Romtha's. I don't know how to use my phone. Okay, Boomer.

880
01:20:05,156 --> 01:20:07,092
Kayla: But, like, we should also be clear that, like, we also.

881
01:20:07,116 --> 01:20:07,692
Chris: Sorry, mom and dad.

882
01:20:07,756 --> 01:20:35,400
Kayla: We also talked about somebody who has dispersed a chain of restaurants throughout the world that. That showcases her 24/7 television station. So, like, there's a lot of culty cults here, but I think. I think given the fact, now that teal has like, a compound in Costa Rica where people go and just work there for her. And like, I think it's teal. I think Teal gets the cultiest cult for this season.

883
01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:49,680
Chris: For me, I'm gonna say something weird here. Strange, whatever. And maybe this is actually kind of tying it back to why we started the podcast in the first place, or how we started it. I'm gonna give cultiest cults to best friends animal sanctuary.

884
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:50,400
Kayla: I think that's.

885
01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:53,808
Chris: And I'm gonna give weirdiest weird to best friends animal sanctuary.

886
01:20:53,904 --> 01:20:54,936
Kayla: Damn.

887
01:20:55,128 --> 01:21:01,128
Chris: Because that's. I mean, that's why we started this, right? Is because we saw this thing that were like, what is going on here?

888
01:21:01,184 --> 01:21:01,616
Kayla: Right?

889
01:21:01,728 --> 01:21:18,208
Chris: We looked into it and we said, wow, there were a lot of bugs under that rock, right, when we turned that over. And so, yeah, I kind of have to give it to both, because, like, if you look at the entity that became best friends, if you look at the process church of the millennium.

890
01:21:18,304 --> 01:21:20,648
Kayla: Right? Process church of the final judgment.

891
01:21:20,704 --> 01:21:23,268
Chris: Final judgment. Excuse me. And then they'll. What was it? Something.

892
01:21:23,324 --> 01:21:24,180
Kayla: There was a millennium.

893
01:21:24,260 --> 01:21:26,628
Chris: There was something millennium. Whatever. Something very cultural.

894
01:21:26,644 --> 01:21:28,356
Kayla: I think there was process search, whatever.

895
01:21:28,508 --> 01:21:40,796
Chris: If you ignore best friends, I think that even beats teal. As culty as teal is. And as she has a compound and she's super woo. And she says things that are, like, absurd and false. Akashic records.

896
01:21:40,828 --> 01:21:45,204
Kayla: Teal was also not kicked out of Scientology by L. Ron Hubbard himself.

897
01:21:45,292 --> 01:21:53,746
Chris: And like, maybe his friends with. Friends with Charles Manson or whatever. And like, had a compound. They also had a compound and.

898
01:21:53,778 --> 01:21:53,986
Kayla: Yeah.

899
01:21:54,018 --> 01:21:56,098
Chris: Was it Central America or South America?

900
01:21:56,234 --> 01:21:57,546
Kayla: I think they were in Mexico.

901
01:21:57,618 --> 01:22:07,034
Chris: Mexico. Okay, so they had a compound south of here. They had. That was some crazy shit going on.

902
01:22:07,082 --> 01:22:08,186
Kayla: They were a straight up cult. Yeah.

903
01:22:08,258 --> 01:22:12,938
Chris: He worshipped like, it was God, Jesus, devil, and Satan.

904
01:22:12,994 --> 01:22:15,538
Kayla: Yeah. And they were like. They were.

905
01:22:15,634 --> 01:22:16,338
Chris: What the fuck?

906
01:22:16,394 --> 01:22:20,906
Kayla: They were mo. Is it millenniasmouse? They were people who were like, the end of the world is happening.

907
01:22:20,938 --> 01:22:26,474
Chris: That's why I was called process. I think we've actually were even, like, mispronouncing it. It's probably like process, right? Because.

908
01:22:26,522 --> 01:22:27,858
Kayla: No, that's not the part. That's.

909
01:22:27,914 --> 01:22:29,882
Chris: They are processation of reality.

910
01:22:29,946 --> 01:22:35,082
Kayla: No, it's the millennial part that's referencing that from what I remember in my research.

911
01:22:35,186 --> 01:22:39,530
Chris: Oh, I thought it was process. You said process meant, like, processation. You did?

912
01:22:39,610 --> 01:22:43,150
Kayla: Oh, then never mind. Yeah, that was a long time ago.

913
01:22:43,490 --> 01:22:52,852
Chris: So, yeah, so I think that best friends is the cultiest cult. And thanks to all the same things I just said. Also the weirdiest weird. They really straddle that line because they.

914
01:22:52,876 --> 01:22:55,908
Kayla: Were all of that, and now they became animal sanctuary.

915
01:22:56,084 --> 01:23:00,404
Chris: Right. That we have volunteered at. And it's very wholesome, very nice.

916
01:23:00,492 --> 01:23:07,332
Kayla: Such a 180. It's like, first were a cult that worshiped God and the devil, and then were animal sanctuary.

917
01:23:07,436 --> 01:23:22,848
Chris: And also, we're cool with Charles Manson. Anyway, now we like dogs. Yeah. So I'm gonna give it to best friends on both counts. Congratulations, best friends. For me, you have stood the test of time, and here at the end of our first season, you're still the winner.

918
01:23:22,904 --> 01:23:23,664
Kayla: You're still the winner.

919
01:23:23,712 --> 01:23:25,416
Chris: You're still number one in my heart. Best friends.

920
01:23:25,488 --> 01:23:29,440
Kayla: You're number one, best friends. And we can't wait to come and visit you again soon.

921
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:48,448
Chris: Absolutely. Recently took a trip to Zion in Utah, and Zion's very close to Knab, and it made me kind of go like, oh, man, I miss Knab. I can just go pet some dogs, and I can just go hang out at the cult restaurant and talk to some founders and pet a cat and feed a hog.

922
01:23:48,544 --> 01:23:50,016
Kayla: That's all true.

923
01:23:50,208 --> 01:23:53,780
Chris: That's the things that we did that led to this podcast.

924
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,808
Kayla: Thanks, best friends. We're here because of you, right? Truly.

925
01:23:57,904 --> 01:24:09,592
Chris: So the first thank you, I guess, goes to best friends animal sanctuary and Robert de Grimston and Marianne McLean. Marianne McLean. And that's actually Michael Mountain, who is their current charismatic leader.

926
01:24:09,656 --> 01:24:26,602
Kayla: I'm going to issue a correction from our first episode. I called her Marianne McLean through the whole first episode, and I have been informed by a friend of the podcast that the proper scottish pronunciation of her name is. It's Marianne Maclaine.

927
01:24:26,666 --> 01:24:27,322
Chris: Gotcha.

928
01:24:27,346 --> 01:24:28,218
Kayla: So there you go.

929
01:24:28,314 --> 01:24:48,408
Chris: Oh, I also want to issue, well, it's not a. Not as much of a correction, as much as of a clarification. So last episode, were talking about Nobel prize winners that later turned into freaks, and James Watson was one of those. And we said, oh, discover co discoverer of the DNA double helix, which, while.

930
01:24:48,544 --> 01:24:50,656
Kayla: Sort of true, it was a woman.

931
01:24:50,728 --> 01:24:58,224
Chris: It was actually. Well, so I will read the Wikipedia article about this hardcore question, because I.

932
01:24:58,312 --> 01:24:59,872
Kayla: Learned this recently, too.

933
01:25:00,016 --> 01:25:00,760
Chris: So I was.

934
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:01,832
Kayla: Where did we learn this?

935
01:25:01,896 --> 01:25:10,958
Chris: Well, so it was. I believe we both learned it from the person who we are friends with that. The sister. I interviewed the sister?

936
01:25:11,094 --> 01:25:12,878
Kayla: No, I learned it on a YouTube video.

937
01:25:12,974 --> 01:25:26,366
Chris: Oh, okay. Because I was talking to one Mister Sweeney about this, and I mentioned the James Watson thing, and he was like, oh, yeah, did Alex, like, because that's like, one of the things that Alex loves to rant about is that, like, Watson and Crick didn't actually discover it.

938
01:25:26,398 --> 01:25:26,958
Kayla: No, it was a woman.

939
01:25:27,014 --> 01:25:52,680
Chris: And I was like, oh, no, I didn't know that. I actually independently put a note about James Watson in the show and I never actually talked to Alex about it. So, anyway, point is, the name of the woman is Rosalind Franklin. Franklin is best known for her work on the x ray diffraction images of DNA. So that's basically, like, you have to do special techniques to take photographs at that scale.

940
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:53,312
Kayla: Right.

941
01:25:53,456 --> 01:25:58,030
Chris: An x ray diffraction is basically a photographic technique for molecules.

942
01:25:58,110 --> 01:25:58,630
Kayla: Cool.

943
01:25:58,750 --> 01:26:20,970
Chris: Anyway, best known for her work on x ray diffraction images of DNA, particularly photo 51 while at King's College London, which led to the discovery of the DNA double helix for which James Watson, Francis Crick and Maurice Wilkins shared the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine in 1962. Her name was not on that list, if you heard me say it correctly.

944
01:26:21,510 --> 01:26:23,014
Kayla: Yeah. Why isn't her name on the list?

945
01:26:23,062 --> 01:26:25,166
Chris: Because she didn't get the Nobel Prize for it. They did.

946
01:26:25,318 --> 01:26:26,566
Kayla: What was her name again?

947
01:26:26,758 --> 01:26:27,822
Chris: Rosalind Franklin.

948
01:26:27,886 --> 01:26:29,198
Kayla: Thank you. Rosalind Franklin.

949
01:26:29,294 --> 01:26:44,006
Chris: Yeah. So not only was James Watson later become, like, a raging racist, you didn't even really discover DNA. So, anyway. Okay, thanks, Miss Franklin.

950
01:26:44,198 --> 01:26:45,330
Kayla: Who else was.

951
01:26:45,710 --> 01:26:46,838
Chris: Slight adjustment to that.

952
01:26:46,894 --> 01:26:50,416
Kayla: Any other corrections we need to make? Any of those things? Probably a million we need to do.

953
01:26:50,488 --> 01:27:06,624
Chris: We need. Well, definitely. So corrections. There's. I can't even begin to say because there's probably so many. I don't know, nothing that I have specifically come across that I need to correct, but I absolutely will whenever I do. That's my promise.

954
01:27:06,672 --> 01:27:07,704
Kayla: That's a good promise.

955
01:27:07,872 --> 01:27:11,472
Chris: But thank yous. Yeah, I mean, so certainly. Thank you to best friends.

956
01:27:11,616 --> 01:27:12,760
Kayla: Thank you to best friends.

957
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:22,022
Chris: We really enjoyed volunteering there back in 2016. It was a great time. It was beautiful and it inspired this podcast. Thank you. Obviously.

958
01:27:22,046 --> 01:27:23,286
Kayla: And they do incredible work.

959
01:27:23,358 --> 01:27:24,566
Chris: They do. They absolutely do.

960
01:27:24,598 --> 01:27:28,318
Kayla: Thank you for saving all of the doggies and kitties and piggies and horsies.

961
01:27:28,414 --> 01:27:32,038
Chris: Yeah. Especially the cats that shit all over the place and can't walk straight.

962
01:27:32,094 --> 01:27:33,010
Kayla: I love them.

963
01:27:33,830 --> 01:27:38,438
Chris: Also, thank you to all of our interviewees that we had on the podcast.

964
01:27:38,494 --> 01:27:44,086
Kayla: Thank you and Tracy Conan. And thank you to all of the Tulpas people. And thank you to doctor Gorski.

965
01:27:44,198 --> 01:27:55,490
Chris: Thank you to person who I'm, you know, I'm just gonna say his name. Thanks to Gareth. Gareth Marsh, who I interviewed for the Star Citizen episode and he walked me through the game.

966
01:27:55,910 --> 01:28:06,190
Kayla: Thank you to all the people who talked to me for 3301. Thank you to Rey. And there was multiple thank you to Nox Populi. There were multiple people who I interviewed for that episode. They were amazing.

967
01:28:06,270 --> 01:28:36,730
Chris: Thank you to my former blizzard co worker who was the researcher at Johns Hopkins. So if you wind up listening to this, thank you. Thank you to Alex, who I also interviewed for MTHFR. Thank you to our listener that suggested the topic for that one. Thank you to Alyssa for helping us organize which topics were going to do on the show for being our producer. Yes, thank you to our Patreon supporters.

968
01:28:36,810 --> 01:28:45,488
Kayla: Oh, thank you to all of our Patreon supporters. And I mean, thank you to them in general. And then thank you to everyone who's listening, obviously, last but not least, in.

969
01:28:45,504 --> 01:28:47,144
Chris: Fact, saving the best for last, I.

970
01:28:47,152 --> 01:28:49,392
Kayla: Might have had one more. Thank you. No, actually, I have another. Thank you.

971
01:28:49,456 --> 01:28:51,496
Chris: Oh, well, then you better. You better do it right now.

972
01:28:51,568 --> 01:28:56,328
Kayla: Thank you to our incredible friend Ryan for providing intro outro music.

973
01:28:56,464 --> 01:28:57,304
Chris: That's right.

974
01:28:57,432 --> 01:28:58,536
Kayla: And it's incredible.

975
01:28:58,688 --> 01:29:26,366
Chris: That's right. Our outro, our intro outro music is pretty good, actually. So thank you to Ryan and, yeah, and like I said, last. Last but not least. In fact, I. But most is all of our listeners. Super. Thank you guys for listening to the show. It always gives us the warm fuzzies when somebody says something about like, oh, I love this episode or I love the show. Or, I mean, just even knowing that, like, one person is listening is. I don't know, it's really cool.

976
01:29:26,438 --> 01:29:27,238
Kayla: It is really cool.

977
01:29:27,334 --> 01:29:28,334
Chris: It just feels really cool.

978
01:29:28,382 --> 01:29:41,262
Kayla: So, so this is the part of the video game when after you've beaten the video game and you've watched all of the credits and the very last one is and you with an explanation for and you listeners and you. Yeah, I mean, obviously we could make.

979
01:29:41,286 --> 01:29:44,430
Chris: We're basically. Yeah, right.

980
01:29:44,470 --> 01:29:45,142
Kayla: So thank you.

981
01:29:45,206 --> 01:29:56,742
Chris: Yes, thank you so much. And thank you because otherwise we would just be speaking into the void, which we do enough of that already. So it's nice to actually speak into the void and have it land on a couple ears. Yeah.

982
01:29:56,846 --> 01:29:59,444
Kayla: Thank you for being a wonderful co host.

983
01:29:59,542 --> 01:30:03,260
Chris: And thank me, too. Sorry, I mean, and thank you to.

984
01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:06,784
Kayla: The band that you're saying.

985
01:30:06,832 --> 01:30:14,576
Chris: Thank you to thank you. Thank you to you two. You're my favorite album of you. No, sorry. No, but seriously, you have also been a wonderful coast.

986
01:30:14,608 --> 01:30:14,816
Kayla: Yeah.

987
01:30:14,848 --> 01:30:17,568
Chris: I have enjoyed the journeys that you've taken me on.

988
01:30:17,624 --> 01:30:18,080
Kayla: Good.

989
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:23,424
Chris: The things that you have taught me and I am very much looking forward to our second season.

990
01:30:23,512 --> 01:30:26,176
Kayla: Oh, man. You guys, there's some.

991
01:30:26,328 --> 01:30:29,000
Chris: We're gonna step it up. We gonna step it up.

992
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:33,560
Kayla: I don't even know if we're gonna step it up. It's just gonna be good ass topics, but, yeah, we'll probably also step it up.

993
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:37,432
Chris: We're stepping it up. I have some ideas. We'll get to that.

994
01:30:37,536 --> 01:30:41,608
Kayla: We'll get to that. Happy holidays to everyone listening.

995
01:30:41,704 --> 01:30:52,844
Chris: Yes, happy holidays, everyone. Hope you enjoy the break from the glut of content that we're spewing at you. Hope you can catch up on some other critical content like, yeah, any pot.

996
01:30:52,892 --> 01:30:54,076
Kayla: Any other podcast we want to shout.

997
01:30:54,108 --> 01:30:55,460
Chris: Out, like, hardcore history.

998
01:30:55,540 --> 01:31:09,788
Kayla: Take this time to listen to hardcore history. To listen to the Nexium podcast uncovering nxivm. Take this time to listen to the dream cereal. Cereal to. Brought to you by from Business Insider. What are. I'm sure there's other podcasts.

999
01:31:09,804 --> 01:31:11,120
Chris: My dad wrote a porno.

1000
01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:16,164
Kayla: Yes, those are great podcasts. But are they not related to the show?

1001
01:31:16,212 --> 01:31:19,772
Chris: What? I don't know. I said the. I said cereal that's not related to our show.

1002
01:31:19,836 --> 01:31:21,372
Kayla: Oh, what was that teal swan one called?

1003
01:31:21,476 --> 01:31:21,948
Chris: Gateway.

1004
01:31:22,004 --> 01:31:26,468
Kayla: Gateway. Listen to the gateway. There's just so much good stuff out there.

1005
01:31:26,604 --> 01:31:27,172
Chris: Yeah.

1006
01:31:27,276 --> 01:31:31,932
Kayla: Thank you to all of these podcasts for doing the hard work that we then rip off.

1007
01:31:31,996 --> 01:31:35,668
Chris: Thank you for allowing us to rip you off or not knowing.

1008
01:31:35,724 --> 01:31:38,748
Kayla: Catch up on reply all because I've ripped off many of their topics.

1009
01:31:38,804 --> 01:31:42,932
Chris: Yes, and thank you for all those podcasters. Anyway, just for, like, inspiring us.

1010
01:31:42,956 --> 01:31:44,348
Kayla: Yes, thank you.

1011
01:31:44,524 --> 01:31:51,348
Chris: But, yeah, so we will. That's. That's enough thinking right now. We will see all of you guys in season two. Looking forward to it.

1012
01:31:51,444 --> 01:31:52,164
Kayla: It'll be fun.

1013
01:31:52,252 --> 01:31:54,916
Chris: It will. Oh, are we gonna do a judgment for this one?

1014
01:31:54,988 --> 01:31:55,964
Kayla: Are we a cult or are we just.

1015
01:31:55,972 --> 01:31:59,132
Chris: We're the culties. A cult or just weird?

1016
01:31:59,276 --> 01:32:00,012
Kayla: Just weird.

1017
01:32:00,116 --> 01:32:01,100
Chris: Yeah, they were super weird.

1018
01:32:01,140 --> 01:32:02,204
Kayla: Neither of us are charismatic.

1019
01:32:02,292 --> 01:32:06,124
Chris: Right? We're definitely not charismatic. Didn't consume that much of our life.

1020
01:32:06,212 --> 01:32:06,700
Kayla: Right.

1021
01:32:06,820 --> 01:32:10,596
Chris: Harmful. Eh, not really. My butt hurts from sitting down for so long.

1022
01:32:10,668 --> 01:32:11,420
Kayla: Not religious.

1023
01:32:11,500 --> 01:32:14,948
Chris: Oh, it's definitely a ritual. Are you kidding me? These shows are hyper real.

1024
01:32:15,004 --> 01:32:19,968
Kayla: Sure. But they're also, like, planned. And ours was just like, eh, I.

1025
01:32:20,024 --> 01:32:25,080
Chris: Wrote things on a paper. What more do you want from me.

1026
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:26,416
Kayla: Saying, this is not how you produce.

1027
01:32:26,448 --> 01:32:28,672
Chris: The Oscars, but fair. This is just weird.

1028
01:32:28,736 --> 01:32:29,192
Kayla: Yeah.

1029
01:32:29,296 --> 01:32:34,904
Chris: Okay. And on that note, this has been season one of cult.

1030
01:32:34,992 --> 01:32:36,160
Kayla: You're not gonna just say your name.

1031
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:38,392
Chris: Or anything or just weird.

1032
01:32:38,456 --> 01:32:40,032
Kayla: We usually go. I'm Chris. I'm Colton.

1033
01:32:40,056 --> 01:32:42,184
Chris: Well, I know. Just go with the flow, man.

1034
01:32:42,272 --> 01:32:48,190
Kayla: No, I don't. This is not improv anyway. There is no yes. And here, apparently.

1035
01:32:49,970 --> 01:33:02,106
Chris: Yes. And this is Chris, this is Kayla, and this has been season one of cult or just weird? Come on. It's the season finale. We have to do better than that.

1036
01:33:02,138 --> 01:33:03,150
Kayla: That wasn't good.

1037
01:33:04,770 --> 01:33:06,514
Chris: It was weird. All right, fine.

1038
01:33:06,562 --> 01:33:07,290
Kayla: How do you want to do it?

1039
01:33:07,330 --> 01:33:10,768
Chris: Fitting. No, no. Let's do it that way. All right. I. That's good. That's how it's going out.

1040
01:33:10,824 --> 01:33:11,216
Kayla: Bye.

1041
01:33:11,288 --> 01:33:12,080
Chris: Fuck it. We'll do it live.